Washington State proposed NDZ

[Moe R]

So, the city pumps the poop into the sound. You go to the pump out station, thinking that you're doing the right thing, and get pumped out and the city pumps it into the sound? Vicious cycle

[bobofthenorth]

Originally Posted by Moe R

So, the city pumps the poop into the sound. You go to the pump out station, thinking that you're doing the right thing, and get pumped out and the city pumps it into the sound? Vicious cycle

That is absolutely what happens in Victoria. Is it the same somewhere (anywhere) in Puget Sound?

[minaret]

Originally Posted by bobofthenorth

That is absolutely what happens in Victoria. Is it the same somewhere (anywhere) in Puget Sound?

Yes, but it is treated in a sewage treatment facility first. My understanding is that the "millions of gallons" of raw sewage discharge only occurs during heavy rains/flooding. Other than that it's treated sewage.

[kbudd]

Using the excuse that it is OK to do the wrong thing because everyone else does the wrong thing is still doing the wrong thing.

[Bilbo Baggins]

The people that this will effect are those without waste holding tanks. Just like every other change they will have to comply. Doesn't do any good to think that because big cities "sometimes" discharge raw sewage and we "used to" be able to means it is ok to keep up the practice. Remember when certain brands of cigarettes were preferred by doctors??

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by minaret

Why has it got to be "if the shore facilities are up to snuff"? Why not just take the high road and go ahead and do our part? Maybe others would follow suit, and it certainly would give us better grounds for argument. No point in sinking to their level, and two wrongs don't make a right...

I have a problem with the ratios, several MILLION to one just for starters.

[Bilbo Baggins]

What you need to do is what we did a few years ago with the State of Washington and it's Clean Water Act. Our Marina got a grant to purchase better (motorized) pump out systems and pay for 3/4 of the wage of a worker to pump our boats for us. SWEET! We no longer have to pump our own boats!!!!

[senormechanico]

And if you take the "high road" exactly WHEN will the local "green" authority take that same road?







Probably never.

[kbudd]

Originally Posted by minaret

Yes, but it is treated in a sewage treatment facility first. My understanding is that the "millions of gallons" of raw sewage discharge only occurs during heavy rains/flooding. Other than that it's treated sewage.

I think that during heavy rains, the storm runoff water that is normally handled by the sanitary sewers is diverted, not raw sewage.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

I have a problem with the ratios, several MILLION to one just for starters.

Yeah, me too. But somebody has to go first when it comes to doing the right thing. Solving the problem of what to do with all that sewage shore side has got to be complicated as well. Shall we mandate that everyone on shore go to a composting system? Got any other ideas besides treating it and pumping it into the sound? Maybe pipe it to the ocean? It's gotta go somewhere...

[senormechanico]

For cities like Seattle (whose residents complain loudly about Victoria pumping into the Strait of Juan de Fuca) the only real answer to Combined Sewer Overflows is to completely redo the entire sewer system.

Not gonna happen.

[sailorchic34]

People have to understand that Victoria is discharging un-treated sewage into the sound, and has been. There is a treatment plant under construction, but it will not be active until 2018 at the soonest.

Seattle like San Francisco, has combined storm and sanitary sewer system. During heavy rains, Raw sewage is discharged to sea. Been happening for a long time too

The tidal flows both in the Sound and SF bay, provide a strong flushing action. Not to mention that bacteria in the sea water will make short work of the waste. That's why the ocean is not filled with fish poop after all.

The realities are that even if boats were discharging into the sound, there would be little measurable effect, due to the strong flushing action in that area.. It truly makes little sense to pump out at a shore facility, that then dumps the waste back to sea, un-treated in many cases.

Once the shore treatment plant facilities are upgraded to zero raw discharge then would be advisable for a NDZ. As it is now, Boats do not really effect the overall raw sewage dumps to the sound. Victoria itself dumps 1500 liters a second, btw.

[IdoraKeeper]

Okay that's it. I am gonna give up crapping and pissing. Never mind that I will be full of it on an going basis…instead of only occasionally. Or not.... The whole situation is going to pot.....now I will have to pull up to shore and go borrow someone's commode. Let's all refuse to buy beer till this goes away.
Its always something, even as I speak, boatman is crossing the ocean in a Cat.... Dogs and cats sleeping together... No beer...no discharge arrrrrgh!

[Paul L]

I don't see what creating an NDZ really accomplishes in the Puget Sound. It is already illegal to discharge waste into the Sound. If you have a head you must have a holding tank and use it. The exception being if you have a Lectrasan type unit that treats the sewage before being dumped. The NDZ says no Lectrasans. It does not add any new holding tank requirements. So some tiny percentage of boaters with Lectrsan units will be negatively affected.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Welcome to our world (Great Lakes). It's been that way for 40 years up here. It's a good thing. BTW, my Dad always said, "Don't worry about everyone else (City of Seattle), just worry about yourself."

Oh and Porta-potties are incredibly evil foul inventions.

Also on the Great Lakes. 100% NDZ. We have a small holding tank 20 gal (locked Y); straight out discharge (locked out); air head. - Total 3 heads. I have no problem with our ZDZ. Pressure on treatment for towns, villages & farms over the last 50 years has resulted in a remarkable change in water quality. Brown cruddy rivers of my youth run clear and have fish now. Unfortunately, we too have a few massive scofflaws here. Green Bay & the Fox river is a feted scum hole. Lake St Clair is a sewer whose beaches are often closed to swimming (Detroit). Most notably, Chicago. The big flap has been the effort to close the Chicago ship & sanitary canal to prevent invasive species. The resistance has been from the city. They do not have legal or reasonable alternatives due to ignoring the EPA, DNR and other agencies. For at least 40 years the Dem machine has utterly ignored all pressure to install proper treatment facilities and continued to pump the poo of millions to New Orleans. This contributes to the Gulf of Mex dead zone not to mention public safety.

I can't speak to the Seattle zone but my charts suggest the area to be covered is quite large and may easily exceed the ability of many to comply, even if they are willing. Also, it may extend well too far out to be meaningful, especially when compared to the gross discharge of land based poo in the order of 1 million X the boat discharge. Controlling ZDZ in backwater & estuary along with crab & shellfish beds make sense. Places that are well flushed would be overkill.

What is the plan for pump-outs? Is the infrastructure there? Will they be plentiful, accessible, affordable? We pay 5 bucks for a pump & flush. If Seattle's rule turns into a money, tax & rob plan, people will find ways to ignore it. Such a plan was legislated in parts of Turkey. There were almost no pump-outs available and the fee was 50 bucks.