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Old 23-02-2021, 09:39   #16
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

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Originally Posted by Lodesman View Post
When I asked "what's the trick?" I was referring to your sailboat/tug crossing. I think you mean't to say Pandor was incorrect. Rule 18 makes it clear the sailboat would be stand-on - no trick there.

Arguably it's a little "tricky" making test questions about the minutiae or semantics of the rules, but this does in some way ensure a complete understanding of the rules rather than a cursory knowledge.
Yes I should have used the word Tricky.

I think the USGC is trying to really test your knowledge by asking the questions in a tricky way.

On some of the tests they will ask the same question in 2 different ways just to make sure you understand the rules.
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Old 23-02-2021, 09:49   #17
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

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Originally Posted by Captain Graham View Post
You are right it is really not a trick because you are using the definitions that are spelled out in the COLREGs.

The tricky part is you do not uses normal English words and they will use normal English words in some of the answers before they use the correct words.

I try to explain to my students that the COLREGS have their own special defined terms and you need to use them.
This is correct because without careful attention to semantics, you get people saying "right of way" instead of "stand on," which are two very, very phrases that have two very, very different meanings. And so on.
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Old 23-02-2021, 11:00   #18
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

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Originally Posted by Lodesman View Post
When I asked "what's the trick?" I was referring to your sailboat/tug crossing. I think you meant to say Pandor was incorrect. Rule 18 makes it clear the sailboat would be stand-on - no trick there.

Arguably it's a little "tricky" making test questions about the minutiae or semantics of the rules, but this does in some way ensure a complete understanding of the rules rather than a cursory knowledge.
Rule 18 would indeed apply if the sailboat was indeed a “sailing vessel”. By definition a sailing vessel means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

However, the term “sailboat” is not defined in the rules. So this sailboat could either be under sail as a sailing vessel or under power as a power driven vessel.

Because the question states that both the sailboat and other vessel are in a crossing situation which can only apply between two power-driven vessels, this implies that the sailboat is under power at the time of the crossing. Either that, or there is no crossing situation and Rule 18 applies.

So if rule 15 applies, the sailboat must be under power and the tow is the stand on. Conversely if the sailboat is sailing with no power, she would be stand on.
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Old 23-02-2021, 11:57   #19
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

Well, if they are being all that picky about wording, why do they use the word "prolong" rather than "prolonged" when describing the duration of the signal?

And Pandor, how do you conclude that "Because the question states that both the sailboat and other vessel are in a crossing situation which can only apply between two power-driven vessels, this implies that the sailboat is under power at the time of the crossing."?

What part of the question has the implication buried in it?

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Old 23-02-2021, 12:12   #20
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

Quote:
In open water you are on a sailboat in a crossing situation with a tow boat towing astern a barge.
Rule 15 is “Crossing situation: when two power-driven vessels are crossing...”

Therefore, crossing situations only happen under the rules between two power-driven vessels. A “crossing” between a sailing vessel and a tow is not a crossing situation at all.
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Old 23-02-2021, 12:38   #21
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandor View Post
Rule 15 is “Crossing situation: when two power-driven vessels are crossing...”

Therefore, crossing situations only happen under the rules between two power-driven vessels. A “crossing” between a sailing vessel and a tow is not a crossing situation at all.
But Pandor, if you interpret the question in that way, are not all 4 answers wrong?
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Old 23-02-2021, 13:03   #22
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

Having never taken a USCG exam I wouldn't know if this is an accurate version of the question.

Having taken a Canadian TC multiple guess exam many many years ago to many to actually remember the questions.
My recollection. most were straight forward and easy.

Just enough required very careful reading, over very specific technicalities,

And a few were just choosing the best option out 5 wrong answers.
So the least wrong. was the correct answer.

Or Multiple Guess exams suck: smile:
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Old 23-02-2021, 13:05   #23
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

Ha! I didn’t look to hard at the answers and if not told that this is a “trick” question, I probably would have chosen the sailboat as stand on. But I don’t think this is an actual USCG question since I did not find it in the USCG test bank. Graham can correct me if I’m wrong. To me, calling the vessel a sailboat in the context of rules is too confusing. I think USCG would have either called it a “sailing vessel” or a “sailboat under sail. “

This does illustrate how test questions can be confusing, though.
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Old 23-02-2021, 13:23   #24
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

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Originally Posted by Captain Graham View Post
Another Trick question

In open water you are on a sailboat in a crossing situation with a tow boat towing astern a barge.
The tow boat and barge are on your starboard side. Who is the stand on vessel?

a. The Tow boat and barge because they are "Not Under command"
b. The Tow boat and barge because they are "Restricted in their ability to maneuver"
c. The Sailboat
d. Who every blasted their maneuvering signal first.

Try to answer it yourself.
Remember it is a trick question.
Why is the correct answer c. and not b?

Rule 3 says:
Quote:
(g) The term “vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver” means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel; vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver include, but are not limited to:
....

(vi) a vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course.
Rule 18 says:
Quote:
...
(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.
...
How is the person at the helm of the sailboat to know if the tow is, or is not, "a vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course"?

Well, there should be shapes or lights.

Yet, the test question makes no mention of shapes or lights. So how is the PUT(Person Under Test) to know the status of the lights or shapes. They have to guess. The right answer COULD be B or C but the question is not providing the information needed to make a proper choice.

Is this not a bad question?

Later,
Dan

PS. This is a great conversation.
PSS. More please.
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Old 23-02-2021, 13:36   #25
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Graham View Post
Another Trick question

In open water you are on a sailboat in a crossing situation with a tow boat towing astern a barge.
The tow boat and barge are on your starboard side. Who is the stand on vessel?

a. The Tow boat and barge because they are "Not Under command"
b. The Tow boat and barge because they are "Restricted in their ability to maneuver"
c. The Sailboat
d. Who every blasted their maneuvering signal first.

Try to answer it yourself.
Remember it is a trick question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandor View Post
Rule 15 for crossing situations applies only to power driven vessels. Therefore, your sailboat is under power and the other boat is stand on since they are to starboard.
Ha, indeed the question proposed by Captain Graham is "tricky" in that it is based on a false premise. With the sailboat [that is sailing and NOT motoring] there is not a "crossing situation" as specified in Rule 15.

Instead there is a Keep Out of the Way situation.

—INTERNATIONAL—
Steering and Sailing Rules
RULE 18
Responsibilities Between Vessels
Except where Rules 9, 10 and 13 otherwise require:
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv) a sailing vessel.

(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.

(c) A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible,
keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.
(d)
(i) Any vessel other than a vessel not under command or a vessel
restricted in her ability to maneuver shall, if the circumstances of the
case admit, avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained
by her draft, exhibiting the signals in Rule 28.
(ii) A vessel constrained by her draft shall navigate with particular
caution having full regard to her special condition.

And since there is a Keep Out of the Way situation then there are the according Actions to be taken rules 16 and 17. But it all starts with who is to Keep Out of the Way of the other.

RULE 16
Action by Give-way Vessel
Every vessel which is directed to keep out of the way of another vessel
shall, so far as possible, take early and substantial action to keep well clear.

RULE 17
Action by Stand-on Vessel
(a)
(i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way the other shall
keep her course and speed.
(ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her
maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel
required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in
compliance with these Rules.
(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and
speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of
the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to
avoid collision.
(c) A power-driven vessel which takes action in a crossing situation in
accordance with subparagraph (a)(ii) of this Rule to avoid collision with
another power-driven vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit,
not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side.
(d) This Rule does not relieve the give-way vessel of her obligation to keep
out of the way.

Okay lets take the question to another level of "trickery", let us make the assumption that the sailboat is sailing, and the tow boat and barge are also sailing.

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Old 23-02-2021, 14:24   #26
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

My guess is "C". Option "C" option c is said to be statistically, the most likely to be correct
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Old 23-02-2021, 15:39   #27
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

I recall taking my GMAT exam for applying to graduate school of business to pursue my MBA.

About 15 minutes in, I and several others sitting nearby, all of a sudden, paused and looked at our answer sheet. We all had noticed with shock that the exam answers were following a stepped progression and I recall mumbling, loud enough so that others could hear: "Do you see what I am seeing?" Heads nodded in agreement with smirks on our faces. It took but a short while to determine the algorithm that would derive the next correct answer.

I completed the test, by answering the questions and then went back and checked that the progression continued through out the exam.

I then wrote the algorithm that depicted the choice for the correct answer in the margin of the exam and handed it in to the proctor stating that the sorting of the correct answers were not randomly established and that the algorithm for the answers was denoted on my answer sheet.

The procotor looked at the answer sheet, spotted the progression in short order, and went

Some memes for the road:

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Old 23-02-2021, 16:06   #28
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

And on the CruisersForum, threads with multiple choice questions be like:
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Old 23-02-2021, 16:19   #29
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandor View Post
Rule 15 is “Crossing situation: when two power-driven vessels are crossing...”

Therefore, crossing situations only happen under the rules between two power-driven vessels. A “crossing” between a sailing vessel and a tow is not a crossing situation at all.
Rule 15 only happens between two PDVs, because that's all that's described in that rule. However any type of vessel can be in a "crossing situation" - how else would you describe a situation where two vessels are converging from roughly perpendicular courses?
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Old 23-02-2021, 16:22   #30
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Re: USCG Exam Rules of the Road Trick Questions

Then there be that reaction from everyone when you ask for an extra answer sheet on a multiple choice test.
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