Thread for Basic COLREGS Questions

[mac_ar]

Hi !

You can find it on my profile or you can google CINEMATIC RADAR SIMULATOR.

Thanks, enjoy !

[longjonsilver]

On another thread i read about day shapes that are required for anchoring. Wikipedia states that

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Day shapes are black in color and their sizes are determined by the ColRegs, for instance the size of the ball is not less than 0.6 meter diameter. The vertical distance between shapes is at least 1.5 meters. Vessels of less than 20 meters length may use shapes of smaller size commensurate with the size of the vessel.

West Marine sells a folding ball day shape that is 11 7/8" diameter (30.4cm). What does it mean "commensurate with the size of the vessel"? Can a 12m yacht use a ball (basketball painted black) 21cm diameter?

anyone know?

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navR..._published.pdf

[Adelie]

Hard to say legally. If you wanted to play it safe I would go with proportionate so:
12m/20m*60cm=36cm

You would probably be fine with the 30cm ball but 21cm would probably be shaving it to fine.

My boat is 6.6m and I wouldn’t want to go below 30cm just for visibility reasons regardless of what’s legal.

[nigel1]

I would go with the folding type, 30cm dia would be OK, and easy to stow away as compared to a basket ball., and they are cheap enough. Would be easy enough to make one.

[StuM]

The problem with a strict interpretation of "commensurate" is determining the baseline. Do you scale in relation to the 20m minimum?


If so a 19.5m vessel will need a shape 585mm in diameter - while a 300m long ship still only needs one 600mm in diameter


I'd stick with what others have suggested - the fairly standard 300"ish" mm diameter (i.e half the size that a large ship displays).

[Bill Seal]

The Coast Guard cutter Courier which I was stationed in Rohdes Greece had an odd day shape, 3 large black cylinders in a vertical line. It meant "stay away, we're transmitting the Voice of America with 230 kilowatts radiated power". It was fun watching the occasional cruise ship which came within 20 feet or so, their rigging would light up like the Fourth of July.

[Jim Cate]

Re the CD's requirement for anchor ball diameter: I think that any inspecting officer will be so astonished to find an anchor ball displayed that he will not get out the calipers and measure it!

We've used a childs plastic basketball painted black for years, and no adverse comments about size have been heard, official or otherwise, other than "what the hell is that thing up there?"

Jim

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Re the CD's requirement for anchor ball diameter: I think that any inspecting officer will be so astonished to find an anchor ball displayed that he will not get out the calipers and measure it!

We've used a childs plastic basketball painted black for years, and no adverse comments about size have been heard, official or otherwise, other than "what the hell is that thing up there?"

Jim

+1

I suspect that we are over thinking this. The wording in COLREGS is not specific therefore any math we come up with is TMI (too much information).

Simply because the anchor balls available for small vessels in marine stores are 11.7" (30 cm) in diameter then we could expect that this would meet the "common use" principle and thus argued to meet COLREGS.

And as Jim noted, be ready to give CPR to the inspecting officer when they realize you do have an anchor ball.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by evm1024

+1

I suspect that we are over thinking this. The wording in COLREGS is not specific therefore any math we come up with is TMI (too much information).

Simply because the anchor balls available for small vessels in marine stores are 11.7" (30 cm) in diameter then we could expect that this would meet the "common use" principle and thus argued to meet COLREGS.

And as Jim noted, be ready to give CPR to the inspecting officer when they realize you do have an anchor ball.

Another way to consider things:

Have you ever really looked at an anchored large merchant ship? Bloody things are approaching a quarter mile long, and there at the bow is their ~ 1 meter diameter ball, often displayed like a lollypop on the top of a short mast. Compared to the size of the vessel, truly tiny. And when approaching such an anchored vessel, you begin wondering if she is really under way at a considerable distance. The ball is damn hard to make out, even with binoculars.

I believe our "yacht-sized" day shapes are well within both official and practical parameters.

And FWiW, after writing my post yesterday, I looked up at our anchor ball and noticed that a lot of its native blue color was showing through the black paint. I was so embarrassed that I took it down, went ashore and repainted it!

Jim

[parkstone bay]

On the subject of day shapes, I've no idea how our transAtlantic cousins view the issue, but in the UK it is, sadly, extremely common to see a yacht with sails up, but clearly under power, but no "Motoring" triangle (which says, in effect: "dear world, I may look like a sailboat, but I'm really a motor boat").
Though yesterday, I saw a classic yacht coming into our harbour under power, with no sails hoisted, but his motoring triangle was still displayed. I suggest this is the nautical equivalent of the guy in front of you, who hasn't cancelled his indicator after his last right turn 3 miles back.

[Adelie]

However bad it is in the UK it’s worse in the US.

I would say that it is not so much lik leaving you turn signal on long after a lane change but more like leaving you headlights on during the day. Can’t hurt and might help a wee bit.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by parkstone bay

On the subject of day shapes, I've no idea how our transAtlantic cousins view the issue, but in the UK it is, sadly, extremely common to see a yacht with sails up, but clearly under power, but no "Motoring" triangle (which says, in effect: "dear world, I may look like a sailboat, but I'm really a motor boat").
Though yesterday, I saw a classic yacht coming into our harbour under power, with no sails hoisted, but his motoring triangle was still displayed. I suggest this is the nautical equivalent of the guy in front of you, who hasn't cancelled his indicator after his last right turn 3 miles back.

I’m not sure what your question is, but on the western side of the pond you will look long and hard before you EVER see a steaming cone or an anchor ball on a recreational vessel.

Not only does nobody use them, almost nobody would know what they were if they saw them. Sometimes I feel silly as the only boat in the harbor with an anchor ball up, but it just might make a difference if there was ever an accident and things ended in court.

When so few people know what they mean, they are really only useful for legalistic technical compliance with rules, not avoiding accidents.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by billknny

I’m not sure what your question is, but on the western side of the pond you will look long and hard before you EVER see a steaming cone or an anchor ball on a recreational vessel.

Not only does nobody use them, almost nobody would know what they were if they saw them. Sometimes I feel silly as the only boat in the harbor with an anchor ball up, but it just might make a difference if there was ever an accident and things ended in court.

When so few people know what they mean, they are really only useful for legalistic technical compliance with rules, not avoiding accidents.

If you see a motoring cone in the UK chances are they are doing practical yacht examinations

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by parkstone bay

Though yesterday, I saw a classic yacht coming into our harbour under power, with no sails hoisted, but his motoring triangle was still displayed. I suggest this is the nautical equivalent of the guy in front of you, who hasn't cancelled his indicator after his last right turn 3 miles back.

Not really equivalent - the cone isn't likely to be misinterpreted.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Not really equivalent - the cone isn't likely to be misinterpreted.

What could be misleading is all those fishing boats with their basket twin-cone shapes permanently mounted, announcing "keep clear of me I'm engaged in trawling or have gear extending 150m" as they approach or depart harbour, all gear stowed.