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Old 06-08-2020, 19:12   #1
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This Is Why People Get It Wrong

https://www.pbo.co.uk/all-latest-pos...r-videos-65253


Ex-RYA Chief Examiner James Stevens was on hand to talk us through each situation


First video, caption:

If you sail, you really need to know this Colreg: If youíre on starboard tack, you have right of way.



The Ex-RYA Chief Examiner then says that one boat has "right of way" three times in the 1 minute video.
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Old 06-08-2020, 20:34   #2
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

As I was taught....
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Old 06-08-2020, 22:14   #3
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

That is a bit of an over simplification of the way I was taught. If I am not racing then common sense prevails, I am not going to stand on and force another vessel to give way just because I am on starboard. If the other vessel has restricted maneuverability or looks like she would be hard to handle then we get out of the way. I remember being abused by a yachtie (there is that word again Jim) once when we were trawling. He was on sailing starboard and expected us to give way, the old man invited the sailing skipper onboard to discuss the issue further!
Personally I usually do not care what side you pass, just make your attention loud and clear so I know what you are doing.
Cheers
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Old 06-08-2020, 23:11   #4
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

I think what StuM was hinting at was ...

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Old 06-08-2020, 23:45   #5
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanPatrick View Post
I think what StuM was hinting at was ...
Yep, I was referring to an ex RYA Chief Examiner perpetuating the incorrect and dangerous concept of Right of Way under COLREGs
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Old 06-08-2020, 23:54   #6
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

Iím the guy who still clears left and right as Iím approaching a green light.
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Old 07-08-2020, 00:34   #7
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

He'd right of way, he stood straight on
Now he's jiust as dead as if he'd been wrong.


Right of Way is nonsense. It's the 'stand on vessel' until a danger of collison exists. Then one should take avoiding action if the other vessel is not seen to be doing so.


StuM quite right - an ex-RYA examiner should not be perpetuating this phrase. Maybe that's why he is an ex-examiner.
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Old 07-08-2020, 01:46   #8
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Yep, I was referring to an ex RYA Chief Examiner perpetuating the incorrect and dangerous concept of Right of Way under COLREGs
I am afraid it's a hopeless case, the war is lost, just give up

This rather important publication is issued to RN Officers during training at Dartmouth Naval College. I did suggest changing the name, only to be told sorry; its been that way for over a century. I did try but some things are rather ingrained.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seamans-Gui.../dp/0948254580
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Old 07-08-2020, 03:30   #9
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

Hi all,
"right of way" or "stand on vessel" what's the difference?
The obligation is still to avoid collision.

In reality just as on the road in your car where you get bullied by truck drivers, at sea you get bullied by bigger steel boats.

Rgds
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Old 07-08-2020, 04:01   #10
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

Got it wrong.



We arrived in Antigua shortly after this collision. Both boats went home on a transport ship. No sinking, nobody killed, no mast lost. I might have liked to attend the protest meeting.

I dinghyed around to get the photos, Faulmouth Harbor.
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Old 07-08-2020, 04:17   #11
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
That is a bit of an over simplification of the way I was taught. If I am not racing then common sense prevails, I am not going to stand on and force another vessel to give way just because I am on starboard. If the other vessel has restricted maneuverability or looks like she would be hard to handle then we get out of the way. I remember being abused by a yachtie (there is that word again Jim) once when we were trawling. He was on sailing starboard and expected us to give way, the old man invited the sailing skipper onboard to discuss the issue further!
Personally I usually do not care what side you pass, just make your attention loud and clear so I know what you are doing.
Cheers
personally i feel this is dangerous. the rules work (in part) because you know what you are supposed to do AND know what the other guy will do

if the stand on vessel starts altering course she may create a more unknown ie hazardous situation, plus she jeopardises her own rights.

rule # 1 : follow the rules

if in doubt, refer to rule # 1

cheers,
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Old 07-08-2020, 04:59   #12
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

Living and sailing in the Caribbean the give way boat may be on autopilot, short handed or might have a bad case of Don’t Care. If a crossing looks close I prefer to dip. There is no one and no court to help you out or fix your boat here. Avoid and act defensively. Use your radio with large and/or commercial vessels. We were struck in Bonaire while moored and not aboard. Our neighbor vessels saw it and forced the offender to anti-up his insurance information. I had to do most of the repairs myself and it took seven months for a settlement. BTW my AIS has paid for itself many times over while making night passages.
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Old 07-08-2020, 05:34   #13
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

I know the "rules", but don't assume others also know them or will follow them. In the end the rule I try to follow is "don't run into things or let things run into me".
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Old 07-08-2020, 05:39   #14
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
I am afraid it's a hopeless case, the war is lost, just give up

This rather important publication is issued to RN Officers during training at Dartmouth Naval College. I did suggest changing the name, only to be told sorry; its been that way for over a century. I did try but some things are rather ingrained.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seamans-Gui.../dp/0948254580
What's wrong with 'Rules of the road'? It's a colloquialism, just as 'colregs' is. The proper term is rather ungainly.
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Old 07-08-2020, 06:49   #15
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Re: This Is Why People Get It Wrong

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Originally Posted by Draughty View Post
Hi all,
"right of way" or "stand on vessel" what's the difference?
The obligation is still to avoid collision.

In reality just as on the road in your car where you get bullied by truck drivers, at sea you get bullied by bigger steel boats.

Rgds
There's a huge difference. It's not like being on the road in your car.

It's been discussed at length in numerous previous threads.

The stand n vessel doesn't have any "right" to do anything. Thinking you do is a dangerous attitude.
The stand on vessel has an obligation to behave in a very specific way. The give way vessel actually has much greater freedom of manoeuvre than the stand on vessel.

If you are being "bullied by bigger steel boats", I'd guess that you are trying to assert your non exiistent "right" and not acting appropriately.
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