State Registration with CG Documentation?

[motaman9]

Originally Posted by motaman9

BoatUS page says this....I copied the text

"Federally documented vessels are prohibited from using state boat numbering on the hull, though they can display registration stickers."


Sailing somewhere

Also from BoatUS ....

Vessels may only be identified as either a State Registered Vessel or a Federally Documented Vessel - NOT BOTH.
When a vessel becomes federally Documented, the State Registration Numbers and Letters must be removed.
The State Validation Sticker showing proof of paying sales tax may still be displayed on the vessel in accordance with the individual state's regulations.



Sailing somewhere

[motaman9]

Found it ....
From the United States Code section 46



46 U.S.C. 12106 (2007). Surrender of title and number.
(a) In general. A documented vessel may not be titled by a State or required to display numbers under chapter 123 of this title, and any certificate of title issued by a State for a documented vessel shall be surrendered as provided by regulations prescribed by the Secretary. (b) Vessels covered by preferred mortgage. The Secretary may approve the surrender under subsection (a) of a certificate of title for a vessel covered by a preferred mortgage under section 31322(d) of this title only if the mortgagee consents.


§ 12305. Displaying numbers
A number required by this chapter shall be painted on, or attached to, each side of the forward half of the vessel for which it was issued, and shall be the size, color, and type as may be prescribed by the Secretary. No other number may be carried on the forward half of the vessel.
(Pub. L. 98–89, Aug. 26, 1983, 97 Stat. 591.)

In essence....no state title? No registration number exists to be displayed....also display of other (ie non USCG documentation numbers) numbers on forward half of a documented vessel expressly prohibited by 46USC§12305.....

Sorry I'm a legal research nerd


Sailing somewhere

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by motaman9

...

(a) In general. A documented vessel may not be titled by a State or required to display numbers under chapter 123 of this title...

§ 12305. Displaying numbers
A number required by this chapter shall be painted on, or attached to, each side of the forward half of the vessel for which it was issued...No other number may be carried on the forward half of the vessel.

In essence....no state title? No registration number exists to be displayed....also display of other (ie non USCG documentation numbers) numbers on forward half of a documented vessel expressly prohibited by 46USC§12305...

I agree your interpretation that:
1) If required by this chapter, state numbers must be displayed.
2) Any numbers NOT required by this chapter are expressly prohibited.

So, no state numbers allowed on a documented boat.

I'm not seeing the connection to a state-issued title though. Most states require a registration for at least some classes of boats that don't require a title.

[denverd0n]

Okay, I guess I was wrong. I had searched for this before and never found the part about "No other number may be carried on the forward half of the vessel." So... Oops!

[motaman9]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

I agree your interpretation that:

1) If required by this chapter, state numbers must be displayed.

2) Any numbers NOT required by this chapter are expressly prohibited.



So, no state numbers allowed on a documented boat.



I'm not seeing the connection to a state-issued title though. Most states require a registration for at least some classes of boats that don't require a title.

I think since the start of "taxing without titling" they "register" the boat but don't officially title it thus not generating a number to display on the hull. I suppose hyper technically if the excise or property tax sticker they issue has a number on it that would be a violation of the federal law to display it on the forward half of the vessel. I have always asserted that this is just another money grab by panicky, broke or greedy state governments....they have gotten by without this money for over a century prior, since, I think the vessel documentation laws went into effect in the 1800's ??


Sailing somewhere.....

[Phantoms]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

It is 90 consecutive days. Details here...
Official Website Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles

I can't find where it says consecutive days. All I can find is the following which could be interpreted either way.

I will be vacationing in Florida this summer. Do I need to register my vessel there?
Florida recognizes valid registration certificates and numbers issued to visiting boaters for a period of 90 days. An owner who intends to use his vessel in Florida longer than 90 days must register it with a county tax collector. However, he may retain the out-of-state registration number if he plans to return to his home state within a reasonable period of time.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Phantoms

I can't find where it says consecutive days.

Click on the first link, for the Florida Vessel Owners Brochure. The details are in there.

[Phantoms]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Click on the first link, for the Florida Vessel Owners Brochure. The details are in there.

Thank you, I see it there.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by motaman9

...they "register" the boat but don't officially title it thus not generating a number to display on the hull.

The two terms are not related. All states issue registration numbers for boats registered in their state. The registration numbers are displayed on the forward half of a non-documented boat.

A title is a legal document that proves ownership. Not all states require one. If the title has a number at all, it has nothing to do with what's displayed on the hull.

You can have either, both or none.

Originally Posted by motaman9

I suppose hyper technically if the excise or property tax sticker they issue has a number on it that would be a violation of the federal law to display it on the forward half of the vessel.

Interesting. I'd have to say you're right. We'd have to see if they define the word "displayed" anywhere.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by motaman9

I have always asserted that this is just another money grab by panicky, broke or greedy state governments...

Now on that, there can be no disagreement!

[motaman9]

[QUOTE=CaptTom;1589173]A title is a legal document that proves ownership. Not all states require one. If the title has a number at all, it has nothing to do with what's displayed on the hull. You can have either, both or none(quote)





Every state title I have ever had was numbered with the same number as the state number that was to be displayed on the hull....maybe all states title formats aren't the same ??


Sailing somewhere.....

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by motaman9

...maybe all states title formats aren't the same ??

No, all states do not do not do everything the same. I have owned a boat in three different states, and in NONE of them was the number on the title the same as the registration number.

[motaman9]

......

[Tony B]

This thing about State Titles and CG Documentation at the same time - When you apply for fed Documentation, you have to send them your title. Your Documentation is in LIEU of a title. The square state sticker that shows you are current in your state registration, that is not an identification of your vessel and so can be displayed which is in accordance with Fed documentation rules.

[Dave Lochner]

Originally Posted by motaman9

Also cited on

Boat US - Online Boating Safety Study Guide


Sailing somewhere

From the above cited source:

"While federally documented vessels are not required to display state registration numbers, you may still be required to register the vessel with the state, and be required to pay any sales taxes. Federally documented vessels are prohibited from using state boat numbering on the hull, though they can display registration stickers." (emphasis added)

"Not required" implies that can display state numbers if you want.

"Prohibited" means that you can't in any circumstance.

Boat/US you are not very clear here.

On my NY state registration, the registration number is the same as the documentation number.

[motaman9]

Originally Posted by Dave Lochner

From the above cited source:



"While federally documented vessels are not required to display state registration numbers, you may still be required to register the vessel with the state, and be required to pay any sales taxes. Federally documented vessels are prohibited from using state boat numbering on the hull, though they can display registration stickers." (emphasis added)



"Not required" implies that can display state numbers if you want.



"Prohibited" means that you can't in any circumstance.



Boat/US you are not very clear here.



On my NY state registration, the registration number is the same as the documentation number.

Dave....see the later post

There is a specific federal statute that prohibits display of state (or any number for that matter) on the forward half of a documented vessel.....


Sailing somewhere.....