Rules of the road - entering a channel

[cappy208]

Originally Posted by Lcdr47

If you are constrained by draught and can not navigate outside the channel you must display a cylinder to show that you are so constrained. Although we do carry our day shapes, I suspect we are in the minority!

Luckily for both the OP and the follow on Q, neither vessel being described was in International waters. Nor does the concept of 'Constrained by Draft' enter into the conversation.

[Windracer]

Originally Posted by requiem

I'm having trouble following the situation. This is the location, correct? https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=43.0...21401&z=14&b=m

I assume you are coming from the direction of Cutters Boom, heading West to enter the Grand Haven Channel to proceed to Lake Michigan. The crossing traffic is then coming from ahead of you, then turning North to follow the Grand Haven Channel into Spring Lake? Or was it coming from Spring Lake?

Yes exactly. So all traffic is crossing in front of me from port side to enter Spring Lake as i approach the drawbridge travelling westward. Whether coming from the Grand Isle Marina or simply travelling westword down the grand River, this will be the case. As the majority of traffic is "crossing" into Spring Lake in a steady column of boats, they seem to feel they have ROW.

[cappy208]

Getting back to the OP issue. Here is a larger chartlet view with more info. He stated he was transiting from marker 2 to marker one. The thin magenta line.
The offending powerboat came at a 45 degree angle on his starboard bow. Thicker magenta line Any care to guess what really happened?

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by cappy208

Getting back to the OP issue. Here is a larger chartlet view with more info. He stated he was transiting from marker 2 to marker one. The thin magenta line.
The offending powerboat came at a 45 degree angle on his starboard bow. Thicker magenta line Any care to guess what really happened?

That's what the OP implied at the 1st post, but at #82 he indicated the safe route was from #4 to#2 buoys.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Windracer

Yes exactly. So all traffic is crossing in front of me from port side to enter Spring Lake as i approach the drawbridge travelling westward. Whether coming from the Grand Isle Marina or simply travelling westword down the grand River, this will be the case. As the majority of traffic is "crossing" into Spring Lake in a steady column of boats, they seem to feel they have ROW.

No they don't have ROW. Assuming you're motoring (you haven't clarified that), it would be head-on or crossing, in which case you should either alter to stbd along with the opposing vessel, or stand-on while the opposing vessel avoids you. Presumably you are keeping to stbd as much as possible to allow the other vessels room to manoeuvre around you. If you are waiting for the bridge you should try to loiter on the northern/western side of the channel. I'm sure there must be sufficient gaps in the traffic for you to cross.

[cappy208]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

That's what the OP implied at the 1st post, but at #82 he indicated the safe route was from #4 to#2 buoys.

No that is not what he said. He was inferring in relation to other comments.

The reference was in relation to where the powerboat was going/coming from, in reference to where good water was. I have not read he commented otherwise about his heading.

So. The crossing vessel came up in his green sector. There is only one type of encounter this describes.

It may be that all the nonsense talk of verbiage of colregs is distracting from simple mechanics of boat operation. People are incapable (inexperienced, out of practice, whatever you want to call it) of assessing risk of collision, They are looking at the 'small picture' as opposed to being able to see further out, anticipating further afield. It would be hard to desire some to become comfortable (even experienced) with Colregs when they cannot even decipher IF they are in extremis, or even what is coming next.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by cappy208

No that is not what he said.

This is what he said - and it was accompanied by a piece of chart that only showed the two red marks "2" and "4". Take from that what you will:

Originally Posted by mow2000

I will attempt to attach a portion of the chart which shows the actual location of my situation. In thinking about it now it's obvious these markers main (possibly only) purpose is to mark the shallow water to the north. What it doesn't show is the minefield of crab floats to the south and, based on experience, I'm a little skeptical of it's accuracy. I know that heading from "4" to "2" gives me safe passage. So how "wide" is this channel? Does it extend as far south as depth allows? Is it cone shaped? Is a boat to the south heading for marker "4" in the channel? Is it not a channel? What's the sound of one hand clapping?

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Assuming you're motoring (you haven't clarified that), it would be head-on or crossing, in which case you should either alter to stbd along with the opposing vessel, or stand-on while the opposing vessel avoids you. Presumably you are keeping to stbd as much as possible to allow the other vessels room to manoeuvre around you. If you are waiting for the bridge you should try to loiter on the northern/western side of the channel. I'm sure there must be sufficient gaps in the traffic for you to cross.

I agree with this; I'm not seeing anything that would confer special status on traffic heading from the bascule bridge to Spring Lake, and there looks like plenty of space to maneuver.

But, if they drive boats the way people drive cars, I can see plenty of tailgating! Personally in such a mess I prefer to find a better time ("don't be there in the first place"). Apart from that, a few related thoughts are:

• Speeding up is almost universally bad, particularly in a potential collision situation. If you had a gap and the other, er, gentleman tried to close it that's rather inappropriate.
• I'd also consider it poor form to hold up a boat making for an opened drawbridge; not only are you holding up the boat, you are holding up road traffic.
• It appears the "main" channel is that heading into spring lake. However, assuming the other vessel is not some massive barge, I also don't see that mattering here.
• Buy a GoPro.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by requiem

I

• Buy a GoPro.

And an air-horn - the biggest you can get.

[cappy208]

mow2000: Were you going from marker 2 to Mattox Cr or Munroe Cr? Were you going from Marker 2 to one as you originally posted? Where did the offending powerboat come from?

[StuM]

Originally Posted by cappy208

Luckily for both the OP and the follow on Q, neither vessel being described was in International waters. Nor does the concept of 'Constrained by Draft' enter into the conversation.

Be careful of using a phrase like "international waters". It can be misleading since COLREGS applies in a lot of territorial waters. For the US, you should distinguish instead between "COLREGS Rules Waters" and "Inland Rules Waters" in accordance with the "COLREGS Demarcation Lines - 33 CFR 80" contained in the "USCG Navigation Rules International - Inland"

(In this case, it is Inland Rules Waters, not COLREGS Rules Waters, so you have the right idea )

[cappy208]

Originally Posted by StuM

COLREGS do not just apply in "international waters".


In the US, they apply everywhere outside the "COLREGS Demarcation Lines - 33 CFR 80" contained in the "USCG Navigation Rules International - Inland"

Then look in Colregs in US Inland and please find the 'constrained by draft' reference. Rule 18. Knowing that both these examples have occurred INSIDE, under Inland rules.

There is implied reference that when in INLAND waters everyone should be taking draft into account (with no special designation (( lights or dayshape)) necessary).

There are 4 major differences between international and inland CBD is one of them.

[cappy208]

Rule 18.

And to clarify. US inland applies INSHORE of the Colregs line. Not outside as you mentioned.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by cappy208

Rule 18.

And to clarify. US inland applies INSHORE of the Colregs line. Not outside as you mentioned.

Sorry, who mentioned?

I certainly didn't say that US Inland Rules applies outside the COLREGS Demarcation Line.

I said:
COLREGS do not just apply in "international waters".
In the US, they apply everywhere outside the "COLREGS Demarcation Lines - 33 CFR 80"

*COLREGS being the standard abbreviation for the International Rules

[StuM]

Originally Posted by cappy208

There is implied reference that when in INLAND waters everyone should be taking draft into account (with no special designation (( lights or dayshape)) necessary).

On the contrary, there is a clear implication that draft has no bearing on conduct under the Inland Rules. The same rules apply regardless of the draft of any of the vessels involved.