Rules of the road - entering a channel

[rgranger]

So..... nobody really knows.

[Lihuedooley77]

A lot of things can come into effect here, one is good seamanship, and thinking of the safety of other vessels and crews as well as rules of the road, speed limits at the channel entrance and inside...usually 5 mph and no wake..

The O.P, You stated you were onboard a motoring sailing vessel. It that engine is ON, YOU ARE A POWER BOAT. The vessel to your right ( starboard side has the right of way ). So, you slow down and turn to go to his stern , as he fully intends to cross your bow.



He was producing a large wake...Advise all on board to sit down and hold on...HERE COMES A WAKE !.

Approaching from sea.

We slow up before entering a channel, no wake, and we take the entry wide as to have our boat aligned with the channel and then stay to our starboard side to stand clear of the other vessels coming out of the channel.

If we are under power, and sailing vessels are tacking, we estimate any collision bearings, and stand clear of the sailing vessels. Situational awareness, and thinking ahead.

Our home port was Newport Beach , Ca. and on a summer weekend, there could be hundreds of all kinds of boats . Maybe a thousand or more. From small motor boats, stand up paddle boarders, kayaks small sailing vessels, yacht club regatta races, sabots to large fast sailing vessels, plus trawlers, large sight seeing harbor cruise vessels. power yachts on up to 100 plus feet, sailing school lesson and club boats, ferrys, professional fishing and charter boats, etc. Lots of things going on.

Point being, You had to stay way ahead of the power curve, including vessels overtaking, and no bow watch, the skipper, booze in one hand, wheel in the other, draped over by two bikini clad, nubile young baracudas, looking to snare a sugar daddy, no bow watch, etc. ( That is a whole other story ), as he drove his bow pulpilt over our stern. We were undersail, broad reaching very light air, 36 ft sailing vessel, narrow area of the main channel approaching the ferry crossing. No room to manuever, docks to starboard, mooring field to port, and ferry's dead ahead. Plus , tight traffic squeeze.
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With One boat entering a harbor or channel entrance, should not be all that big a problem.

Unless, and this happens, the large fast motor vessel is on auto pilot and not paying the slightest attention to traffic. The other thing, is that many of the fast movers think it is macho and fun to have the throttles up, producing a bow and stern wake and
buzz close to another vessel, and rock them silly with his wake. Very dangerous, and the skipper is a total jerk off.

A skippers responsibility is huge, it is to the vessel, passengers, crew, and other vessels, their people on board, and even your own wake slamming into docks and causing injury to those on the docks. Not to mention financial damage to vessels.

There you go.....have fun stay safe.







If you are undersail, and can fall off a bit to give him some room, they do so.

It sounds like the entering vessel's operator has no clue and thinks in is funny to rock a rag flapper, or any other vessel to blow up his moronic ego.

You must avoid a collision. If you have maneuvering room, just stand clear, and make an ample and early move so the knows what your intentions are.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by sailorladd

and by the by, the US is about the only country in the world that has it's channel markers reversed ....so the little ditty " Red Right Return" can always be recalled when entering into a US channel (many a boat has come to grief with this not often known factoid...

It's not just the US - IALA B is the buoyage regime and includes all of the countries in North and South America, as well as Japan, Korea and The Philippines IIRC

[Bill_Giles]

Crappy 208, “power always gives way to sail” is not true when the power boat is:
Fishing
Constrained by draft
Restricted in ability to manoeuvre
Not under command
At anchor
Aground
Constrained by local bylaws
Minesweeping
And when the sailboat is overtaking.

[Stu Jackson]

Based on his chart, he was NOT in a channel.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Some don't care. Query why they post in Rules threads at all.

everyone cares about the rules, but having read these for years all you really leave with is that people don't understand the rules and you can count on the same group to debate it forever

and I semi read the rules threads like I read most stuff here, the the entertainment

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

everyone cares about the rules, but having read these for years all you really leave with is that people don't understand the rules and you can count on the same group to debate it forever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I read these to learn. It appalls me how many don't, and then argue with corrections, links, references and reason. And with Dockhead. I guess many folks don't understand the multiple trips he's taken from the UK to the Baltic and the traffic he encounters doing so.



I guess the stuff that really gets me is the made up stuff that people come up with. More than reading between the lines, too.


But all in all, all in good sport and good nature.

[Mickeyrouse]

But the PRIMARY rule is that one must take measures to avoid collisions, even it means surrendering ROW. Clinging to stand-on privilege has been the source of countless collisions for hundreds(thousands?) of years of navigation. And radio helps. Just listen to the tow boat skippers. Those guys are never in doubt about what the other guy is getting ready to do. Yeah I know- shrimpers and yachties don’t do that.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Mickeyrouse

But the PRIMARY rule is that one must take measures to avoid collisions, even it means surrendering ROW. Clinging to stand-on privilege has been the source of countless collisions for hundreds(thousands?) of years of navigation. And radio helps.

One of the reasons for these threads is to try to introduce newcomers to actually read the rules. Too many learn just a summary, and don't actually know what e.g. Rule 17 (action by stand-on vessel) says. They may think that Rule 2 is that primary rule that tells them to take action even if they're stand-on, and while that gets them closer to correct behavior it's still incorrect.

That's why some here get wound up by phrases like privilege or right-of-way: a person using them almost certainly has no sense of the legal meaning behind them, and is likely working off an incomplete "folk definition" that just happens to work 90% of the time.

And, since you used the phrase "even it means surrendering ROW", I think that makes it your job to wipe down the walls and ceiling after making Stu's head explode.

[rgranger]

Originally Posted by requiem

One of the reasons for these threads is to try to introduce newcomers to actually read the rules.

What? I thought it was to kill time at work.

[TBear60]

Wow.... And yeah, this is obviously very confusing as we see here the plethora of differing comments.
Anyway in the mainly practical sense...
...looking at the original post, this gentleman was in a channel in a harbor-like, bay-like area of water; the channel being demarked by buoys. Boat #2 (we don't know if it was a ship or a boat or a big boat or a little boat) is presumably a recreational power boat not exceeding 60 feet. So both boats are essentially equally constrained or lack thereof; ie. not a working vessel, fishing vessel or vessel constrained by draft. This leads one to believe that boat #2 could pretty much proceed anywhere within the "channel", which the person posting implies is not narrow. The sailboat being under power is really a power boat; but also marginally constrained by draft.

Boiling it down... it's a simple crossing scenario. The reason I would say "boiling it down" is that when we're out there on the water, we really don't have luxury to peruse the COLREGS to determine if this or if that.

So we make it a simple crossing situation, everyone should be able to understand that. Plus, it's obviously clear Boat #2 doesn't really care. And we aren't in the possible of standing on ROW (which doesn't exist on the water) and mainly we must rely on the Rule: "under all circumstances it is the captain's responsibility to avoid every collision even if it means "violating" some other Rule!"

[JSA]

Given the OP's originaL description of the incident, perhaps the following is applicable -


46 U.S. Code § 2302. Penalties for negligent operations and interfering with safe operation

(a) A person operating a vessel in a negligent manner or interfering with the safe operation of a vessel, so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of a person is liable to the United States Government for a civil penalty of not more than $5,000 in the case of a recreational vessel, or $25,000 in the case of any other vessel.

(b) A person operating a vessel in a grossly negligent manner that endangers the life, limb, or property of a person commits a class A misdemeanor.

[cappy208]

Originally Posted by Bill_Giles

Crappy 208, “power always gives way to sail” is not true when the power boat is:
Fishing
Constrained by draft
Restricted in ability to manoeuvre
Not under command
At anchor
Aground
Constrained by local bylaws
Minesweeping
And when the sailboat is overtaking.

Except none of these were being addressed in the comment you read it in. It’s difficult enough to get people to agree that whatever the phrase is: right of way, stand on, give way, burdened, whatever it’s called. Just the realization that it is the boat operators responsibility to ensure collision, Allision or grounding doesn’t occur. Too much time and effort goes into semantics over wording when people don’t understand it is their duty to avoid (not place blame). My comment was to illuminate the phrase the guy used: “Almost all the time motorboats give way to sailboats”. That is an incorrect assumption. However, feel free to add to the discussion! :-)

[FlightPlan]

Originally Posted by Bill_Giles

Crappy 208, “power always gives way to sail” is not true when the power boat is:
Fishing
Constrained by draft
Restricted in ability to manoeuvre
Not under command
At anchor
Aground
Constrained by local bylaws
Minesweeping
And when the sailboat is overtaking.

.


Would this post be the appropriate place to mention NOTE A on the NOAA Raster Charts, referring to US Coastal Pilot 5, Chapter 2?

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by rgranger

So..... nobody really knows.

As to whether or not the OP was in a narrow channel, I think the majority agree that he was not. As to the academic part of his question, my post #83 basically distills what you'd read in Cockcroft into far fewer words. I doubt Farwell or any other authoritative opinion on the subject differs from that.