Red Tape Puts Me off Cruising

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by Thames

Thanks James and Triton and maxingout and other helful responders.

So do you really have to throw your supplies away?

Have had to discard provisions in New Zealand, Australia and New Caledonia. We have visited 37 countries thus far and only those 3 were strict about allowable foods.

Fresh fruits veggies cannot be brought into numerous other countries but that is never a problem. The fresh stuff is usually long since eaten on the passage.

Judy
S/V BeBe
Amel SM2 #387
currently Phuket

[Thames]

Ah now that's a relief! I was having visions of jettisoning the whole larder at every port! thanks I can keep the cheeeese!

Originally Posted by ozskipper

Well, you could always stay at home or go by plane..... You still have to hold a drivers licence, insurance for your car, pay rent or mortgage, phone bills, internet bills, licences qualifications for the type of job you do. ....

I definitely want to leave the capitalist land-based society you just described, just working out how to do it in the most simple way. Rent/morgage/9-5 desk job etc etc definitely not for me. I would also love to explore the whole world so the options are really take a boat, or take a tent, or take a motorhome (but I have issues with single people using large polluting congesting road vehicles) or just hostel it (more expensive). However, when camping immigration might not let you in because you don't have a recognised address where you intend to stay the night. Perhaps each method of travel has its attractions but there seems to be something special about boating. Maybe just because I grew up by the sea? (the Solent )

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

You will also face compulsory insurance in some places.

Is this true? I've read it's near impossible to get even third-party insurance when single-handing long passages. I have bad experiences with insurance companies, when push comes to shove, some small print excuse and they don't cough up - it's these kind of people I want to escape from! I wonder how much it costs too. Maybe just buy the cheapest crappy insurance policy just to have a bit of paper for the port authorities...do you take both medical travel insurance and third-party and how many other policies...

[meyermm]

Common sense would tell you that insurance for single handing is either going to be very expensive or non existent. What you are looking for (your little piece of space) does exist its just harder to find. Like others have said read up as much as possible but remember most write about their negative experiences rather than the positive.

[Roaring Girl]

A couple of extra points: it helps to know why those countries are imposing those regulations. Just assuming that it's make-work bureaucracy is unwise. In NZ for instance, 46% of their economy comes from agriculture, plus the importance of protecting what's left of the unique flora and fauna found there 1000 years ago. That's why they can be very heavy on some things: we flew there three years ago in the midst of a flu-pandemic crisis, and had been on farms before leaving. They made us soak our boots, and I don't blame them at all.

On insurance - our experience is more limited than some but the only requests for insurance we've had in the Med (including Morocco) have come from marinas making sure you can pay up in case of some mismanagement (and it does happen). This certificate must be translated in certain countries, and most UK insurers will provide that free of charge. So you might choose not to bother with insurance for your high seas single handing but arrange it for when in waters that require it or likely to visit marinas.

Otherwise - just go with the flow, do the homework, enjoy.

[UWOA]

Originally Posted by djmarchand

And cruising is as much about the cruisers attitude as anything. Yours doesn't seem suitable.

David

I'd have to agree.

[UWOA]

Originally Posted by Triton318

djmarchand's response wasn't very helpful. And to say that the the OP's attitude doesn't seem suitable is rubbish. He hasn't even been cruising yet; he was simply attempting to find out what people experience in the way of red tape.

I didn't even understand the intent of rebel heart's response.

The thoughtful and informative response by maxingout is what you hope for when posting on a forum.

But what dmarchand is pointing to is attitude, not the open-minded, problem-solving approach that is prevalent here ... and the later "no talky, but smiley alot" is typical of the superficiality that comes back to haunt others when these 'ambassadors' touch port. Maybe it's the retired police officer in me, but I wasn't enthralled ....

Not to say, that later he does seem to come around a little bit ... just my two cents worth.

[meyermm]

Originally Posted by Roaring Girl

A couple of extra points: it helps to know why those countries are imposing those regulations. Just assuming that it's make-work bureaucracy is unwise. In NZ for instance, 46% of their economy comes from agriculture, plus the importance of protecting what's left of the unique flora and fauna found there 1000 years ago. That's why they can be very heavy on some things: we flew there three years ago in the midst of a flu-pandemic crisis, and had been on farms before leaving. They made us soak our boots, and I don't blame them at all.

On insurance - our experience is more limited than some but the only requests for insurance we've had in the Med (including Morocco) have come from marinas making sure you can pay up in case of some mismanagement (and it does happen). This certificate must be translated in certain countries, and most UK insurers will provide that free of charge. So you might choose not to bother with insurance for your high seas single handing but arrange it for when in waters that require it or likely to visit marinas.

Otherwise - just go with the flow, do the homework, enjoy.

Funny how subjects go on this forum when I said much the same thing on the subject of cruising in decline all I received was a lot of abuse. All they wanted to talk about was the $300 entry and ridicule termite inspections. As well as praise New Zealand while saying that many cruisers were bypassing Australia to go to New Zealand as they did not care about imported pests and diseases and welcomed cruisers.

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by meyermm

Funny how subjects go on this forum when I said much the same thing on the subject of cruising in decline all I received was a lot of abuse. All they wanted to talk about was the $300 entry and ridicule termite inspections. As well as praise New Zealand while saying that many cruisers were bypassing Australia to go to New Zealand as they did not care about imported pests and diseases and welcomed cruisers.

Hi
May be it was just because You was a little to harsh dealing with previous posters?
I think that $ 300 problem is not a problem at all.
For me there are some red tape problems with visiting Australia.
First is the problem with pets on board. I can fully understand and accept the reasons of Australia policy in that matter, but my understanding and acceptance doesn't change things - it is kind of red tape for me.
Second - probably not only for me - is the demand of 48 hours notification of arrival. Sometimes it is really difficult to comply when You are coming on a sailboat, and - for what I can know from net - it is rather strictly enforced, with really great problems for some sailors, even if they didn't have a practical possibility to comply. May be I'm not well informed (net is the net - not overly reliable source of information), but for the moment it looks to me as a problem of a kind.
Apart of this 48 hours issue - I think Your country regulations are understandable and acceptable. Some can not like them, but obviously nobody is forced by Australians to visit Australia - it is the matter of free choice
Regarding the inspections - all kind, drug, termites, firearms and others. In whole world they are harbours were officials are a little bit (or more sometimes) over enthusiastic in fulfilling their duties. I know some such a places in Europe, I do not think Australia is different. It just depend on people, their personal attitude, supervision procedures and lot of other things. In this case there are sources (CF between them) to obtain informations what harbour is the good entrance point for any given country. I believe they were unproperly processed inspections in Australia and in a lot of other countries. Had some unpleasant moments in my life, just because the custom officer was in bad mood, or because the bad mood of custom officer was a norm in some place. I never been in Australia (yet), but knowing some Australians I rather expect such situations ther to be less common than in some other countries...

[Thames]

Man I love Australians! Even if it's not easy, I will just have to visit the fun-loving sunshine breed! Having second thoughts about doing it in a wooden boat though...

...which brings me to the question, when choosing a sailing vessel for cruising, is there any type of boat that gives more hassle when making landfall for paperwork and formalities? Or more hassle to insure? I was thinking of cruising in a 30' cold-molded cutter or ketch, is it difficult to get insured on an amateur build?

[atoll]

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Rent - £1.99

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Save for later

[meyermm]

Double Whiskey - Thanks for your reasoned reply. Just to clarify the 48hrs notification rule it is a minimum 48hrs so you could notify them two weeks in advance if you so desired. Also the notification can if I remember be by phone, fax or email so I really cannot see this being an issue.
Australians on the whole do not like ******** or politically correct talk. Sometimes this offends people who are not used it, if we do not like something or someone we will not hide the fact. Worrying about offending someone by being honest is not an Australian way of living. But even here some are horrified that they may offend hence the apologising for my comments by some.
Interesting though they the apologists seemed unwilling or unable to debate the many points I brought up just wanted to attack me. Have a nice Christmas I hope the snow heavy snow falls do not spoil it.

[Prerequisite]

Thames,
It looks like your ideal boat must have changed again which is fine because boat shopping takes a lot of time and not a little soul searching. You mentioned in one of your later posts that hostels would be too expensive- Might I recommend keeping the true costs of cruising in mind? I'm constantly amazed at how much I spend on my boat, and even though I tell my wife that each expense is the last I know that to not be the truth.

Best of luck to you though! Certainly don't let the red tape get you down... the trip should be just as much about sailing as it is about the places you go, and there isn't much red tape in respect to setting sail.

Jeff

[hellosailor]

"throw my food overboard ...
idea of travelling with my tent and my bicycle."

Dear me, someone's still in the 50's. Today, if you toss your food overboard that's a MARPOL violation and you'll be arrested for littering. You might need a license for that bicycle and if you don't have a helmet and proper lighting...there you are, in the slammer right next to the litterbugs again.<G>

Perhaps you've heard the phrase "Wherever you go, there you are!" (I think from the Hitchhiker's Guide?)

You might try www/noonsite.com for some of the details that vary from place to place, but indeed you need to make up an itinerary and plan ahead, so that your visas, bonds, foodstuffs, and girlfriend are all in order some stops ahead of your schedule.

Sometimes, customs' folks are simply reasonable. One told me that our berries and potatoes were contraband...apparently one was simply not allowed, and the other only allowed if they were in boxes not bags, or vice versa...but seeing as we were off season and reasonably kempt, he said "Just make sure to eat them all while you're on the boat" and left it at that.

There are good reasons why hobbits generally prefer to stay home and not travel. Unfortunately, the reasons get better every year. Leave the pets and weapons home. Stock the galley with rice and tofu (no one regulates tofu!<G>) and swear the girlfriend isn't real, she's just a vinyl blowup companion. See? Now you can clear customs everywhere. Except perhaps Turkey, where they'll still confiscate the girlffriend.<G>

[ozskipper]

...which brings me to the question, when choosing a sailing vessel for cruising, is there any type of boat that gives more hassle when making landfall for paperwork and formalities? Or more hassle to insure? I was thinking of cruising in a 30' cold-molded cutter or ketch, is it difficult to get insured on an amateur build?

Yes there is. Timber! even though its rare to get termites in a boat, its still an issue when entering Aus. Aus has very unique flora and fauna, which is protected wholeheartedly. So the rules are tough as a result. We dont want our country looking as bare as the Greek Isles where everything has been plundered,chopped down or lost.

Also what you have on board. If you have visited the pacific islands you may have purchased some carvings. make sure they are sealed. Varnished, laquered. Then they will most probably be ok. Cane/straw matting or hats will be full of bugs, Guaranteed.

But like dealing with all things beaurocratic. Its whether you pass or fail the attitude test. If youre rude, they will make your life harder. If youre happy and co-operative they will be the same.

Declare everthing you have. Right down to medications and canned food. Declaring doesnt mean you lose it. It just means that the Customs guys can establish if it poses a threat. If you hide as much as an orange our guys will fine you. Then they will turn the boat upside down while figuring out if you are hiding anything else.

The reality is that most items on the boat wont be an issue at all.

Also declare your rubbish if it has food items in it. The nice guys at NZ customs removed all of our rubbish for disposal. that was a bonus.

The below video is what happens when you dont declare. Had these people declared and let customs rifle through it all and separate the few problem items there wouldnt have been a problem and no fine. But they didnt. Its their own fault.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGoD3oimVFc

Cheers
Oz

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by ozskipper

Yes there is. Timber! even though its rare to get termites in a boat, its still an issue when entering Aus. Aus has very unique flora and fauna, which is protected wholeheartedly. So the rules are tough as a result. We dont want our country looking as bare as the Greek Isles where everything has been plundered,chopped down or lost.

Also what you have on board. If you have visited the pacific islands you may have purchased some carvings. make sure they are sealed. Varnished, laquered. Then they will most probably be ok. Cane/straw matting or hats will be full of bugs, Guaranteed.

But like dealing with all things beaurocratic. Its whether you pass or fail the attitude test. If youre rude, they will make your life harder. If youre happy and co-operative they will be the same.

Declare everthing you have. Right down to medications and canned food. Declaring doesnt mean you lose it. It just means that the Customs guys can establish if it poses a threat. If you hide as much as an orange our guys will fine you. Then they will turn the boat upside down while figuring out if you are hiding anything else.

The reality is that most items on the boat wont be an issue at all.

Also declare your rubbish if it has food items in it. The nice guys at NZ customs removed all of our rubbish for disposal. that was a bonus.

The below video is what happens when you dont declare. Had these people declared and let customs rifle through it all and separate the few problem items there wouldnt have been a problem and no fine. But they didnt. Its their own fault.

Cheers
Oz

Humans.
Man.
What are we going to do with them?

An investment banker.

Hmm.