problem with the UK registration

[luis requena]

hello
i bought a boat with english flag and i got a uk adress to do the registry but when they sent me the registry card to my uk adress my friend could not pick it up and it was returned to the ssr and then they send me this emai:

Dear Mr Requena,

As your certificate was returned to us, we have written to you to ask
for evidence that you are residing at the Queens Drive address for a
minimum of 185 days per year. If we receive no response from you by 15th
March your registration will be terminated.

i think it is a big problem, and i do not know what to do, any one can give me advice. the boat is in spain and and it is where i'm know and i want to keep the english flag, cos is much better for me.
thanks

[Roaring Girl]

You're essentially asking us to help you to do something against the UK registry legal requirements. To register a boat in the UK you are supposed to be a UK resident, which according to the letter you quote is defined as 6 months in each year.

You might try a legal challenge to that if you are a UK citizen who is (say) temporarily) living elsewhere but with the fixed intention of returning to the UK in the not too distant future. If that situation doesn't work for you, I think you may have a problem.

The boat should be registered either on where it is, or on where you live. And if you keep it there (wherever there is) for too long, it should be registered there. In Spain in particular, there is a 183 day limit, before you should 'matriculate' the vessel as Spanish and ensure it complies with Spanish law (much more restrictive than UK, as you probably know). This is patchily applied, and so it depends a bit where the boat is.

Sorry I can't offer anything more helpful.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by luis requena

hello
i bought a boat with english flag and i got a uk adress to do the registry but when they sent me the registry card to my uk adress my friend could not pick it up and it was returned to the ssr and then they send me this emai:

Dear Mr Requena,

As your certificate was returned to us, we have written to you to ask
for evidence that you are residing at the Queens Drive address for a
minimum of 185 days per year. If we receive no response from you by 15th
March your registration will be terminated.

i think it is a big problem, and i do not know what to do, any one can give me advice. the boat is in spain and and it is where i'm know and i want to keep the english flag, cos is much better for me.
thanks

Seems neither you nor your friend reside at this address...
else there'd be no need to 'Pick Up' your registration...
What do you expect if your sloppy...
if your gonna try to screw a system at least put some effort into getting it right...
Sorry... no advice... it'd be wasted I feel...

[Dockhead]

Boatman is right -- you are not eligible to register a boat in the UK in your own name if you are not a resident of the UK. You can't just use an address of a friend -- that's illegal. Some people do it and get away with it -- something I would not advise, but it does happen. But you have already screwed it up and gotten caught.

What you can do is register a UK company and register the boat in the company's name. It's not too expensive and not too hard and it is perfectly legal. That's what I do -- I am a non-UK citizen and non-UK resident with a UK-flagged vessel which I keep in the UK.

[SaucySailoress]

From your name and place of residence, I guess you're Spanish? If that's the case, why not register it in Spain? It's all Europe - can't be very different there! And your flag has much nicer colours...

[Pblais]

There may be two issues to deal with in your case. There is the title registration and that is generally where you are a resident. The registration to a company is pretty good most places too but adds some paperwork. There are a but a few places that don't have a residency requirement and the nearest would be Jersey. For an agent and a fee you can have the paperwork totally completed on never go there. It's a local business there.

The second issue are taxes. Sometimes the rules for taxes have nothing to do with the flag and papers of the boat. The papers and flag only prove you own the boat (and the taxes). Where you flag the boat means nothing if you park it some place too long. The calendar will trigger your requirement of taxes due or past due with penalties for getting caught.

With a Jersey based flag and moving around every few months you could avoid taxes perhaps forever. It's the staying some place too long that will eventually get you. Every country has variations about the rules and being totally informed of the details is paramount. In most countries you owe the taxes unless you can prove you don't. It's not a subject to be ignorant about. We have a long thread from a Dutch couple that stayed in Spain too long.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Saucy Sailoress

From your name and place of residence, I guess you're Spanish? If that's the case, why not register it in Spain? It's all Europe - can't be very different there! And your flag has much nicer colours...

Saucy.... the reason is financial.. pure and simple...
if he has SSR its only 15quid every five years....
if its Spanish.. not sure of his costs and time before renewal...
but in Portugal it'll have to be lifted and inspected and will need to meet certain equipment requirements etc before it will qualify and be permitted to be used...
for example my 21ftr would cost 230euro/yr, cheaper if limited to local waters
The UK is the last bastion of freedom for cruisers and permits us responsibility for our life and actions without 'Big Brother'....
There are however consequences if we 'screw up'....

[s/v Moondancer]

While the registration and the Income tax people are unlikely to communicate the moment you prove you have lived in the UK for 186 days in a year you legally become eligible to pay UK income taxes!

[swagman]

Hi Luis,

Sorry to see that you're not getting much support on this especially as it is not exactly a henious crime.......

As others have pointed out, were you a membe rof the Russian mafia you could form your own UK company and have the boat registeration welcomed with open arms. But it seems you're not.

IMHO if the UK's SSR was extended to cover vessels for people not resident it could only benefit all users, but the reality is right now your only solutions are limited.

Become UK resident. Find another UK based pal happy to handle your paperwork at a new registration address. Go unregistered.

That last option is not the end of the world either.


JOHN

[boatman61]

LOL.... sounds to me like they just picked an address then went round after a while to collect it only to find the property owner had sent it back....
"Not Known at this Address".....
As for not registering it.... that will be a problem I can assure you...

[klubko]

You can try Germany or Belgium. Both will accept EU citizens, boat can be anywhere (survey is not required). Belgium reg has to be renewed every 5 years, Germany is forever. Cost is marginal.

Swagman: is no registration really an option? I believe that most coutries require their vessels to be registered to sail in their waters and as far as I understand, you must be registered when entering foreign waters (is then the nation of the boat then judged by the nationatily of the owner?). I wonder if this would be a problem? I have a friend who went through four countries without registration when delivering his newly bought boat and it wasn't a problem. But I would probably be worried myself, after all the harbourmasters and customs have their forms with all those boxes to be filled...

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by klubko

Swagman: is no registration really an option? I believe that most coutries require their vessels to be registered to sail in their waters and as far as I understand, you must be registered when entering foreign waters (is then the nation of the boat then judged by the nationatily of the owner?). I wonder if this would be a problem? I have a friend who went through four countries without registration when delivering his newly bought boat and it wasn't a problem. But I would probably be worried myself, after all the harbourmasters and customs have their forms with all those boxes to be filled...

In the UK no requirement to register a boat. WTF does it really have to do with the Govt???

The requirement comes from "foreigners" - who require visting boats to be registered somewhere. and are genuinely puzzled / confused with the basic concept of boats not needing to be registered. Foreigners set the rules for their own waters. you go and obey - or you don't go.

FWIW I have taken un-registered vessels to France before. Never had a problem. But I expect one day I would - so not a recomendation!

Of course some don't feel free until their Govt has given them a piece of paper to prove it

But the day that my Govt has to approve how I poop on a boat is the day I give up boating. and the day my Govt can board at any time to check I have wiped properly is the day I probably shoot myself. or fly something into a tall building

[Artif]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

In the UK no requirement to register a boat. WTF does it really have to do with the Govt???

The requirement comes from "foreigners" - who require visting boats to be registered somewhere. and are genuinely puzzled / confused with the basic concept of boats not needing to be registered. Foreigners set the rules for their own waters. you go and obey - or you don't go.

FWIW I have taken un-registered vessels to France before. Never had a problem. But I expect one day I would - so not a recomendation!

Of course some don't feel free until their Govt has given them a piece of paper to prove it

But the day that my Govt has to approve how I poop on a boat is the day I give up boating. and the day my Govt can board at any time to check I have wiped properly is the day I probably shoot myself. or fly something into a tall building

Superb, very well said

[boatman61]

Way to go Dude... just wish the rest of the world felt the same...

[savoir]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Saucy.... the reason is financial.. pure and simple...
if he has SSR its only 15quid every five years....
if its Spanish.. not sure of his costs and time before renewal...
but in Portugal it'll have to be lifted and inspected and will need to meet certain equipment requirements etc before it will qualify and be permitted to be used...
for example my 21ftr would cost 230euro/yr, cheaper if limited to local waters
The UK is the last bastion of freedom for cruisers and permits us responsibility for our life and actions without 'Big Brother'....
There are however consequences if we 'screw up'....

You wouldn't read about it boatman but the rotten sods have put the price up to 25 quid. No doubt when the time for your boat's registration renewal comes around you will proudly hand over that extra tenner happy in the knowledge that you have done your bit to help reduce the national debt.