Operator's Permits and Boating Licenses

[ice]

Breaking this discussion out from the Cuba thread. I am curious about the the current state of play with respect to operator's permits and boating licenses - both within the US and also worldwide.

Has anyone in the US ever been asked by an official to show their operators license/permit (for running a pleasure vessel, I am not talking commercial here)? How many of you US boaters have 'operator's' or 'safe boating' permits/licenses? How many of you do not?

In the America's, we know Canada requires foreign flagged vessels to have some sort of licenses/operator permit (if you stay more than 45 days) - do any other countries in the America's have a similar requirement?

In Europe. there is an ICC (international certificate of competency - I think). Has anyone ever been asked for one by an official? Where are they required and where not?

What about Australia and New Zealand - any requirement for locals or for Foreign flagged vessels?

The only places we have ever been asked was in Uruguay (And in Canada). It was not required of foreign vessels in Uruguay, but just to speed things along, and not have a debate in Spanish, I showed them my auto drivers license and they happily wrote down the number on their form. In Canada it was required and I had a Canadian operator permit card to show them, but it did not seem like they would have been very fussed if I had not had one.

[Astral Blue]

Speaking only for California, we are not required to have a permit or license to operate a recreational vessel. Some states require the completion of a boater safety course, but California doesn't.

One thing to note is that inland bodies of water with no navigable access to the ocean are under the jurisdiction of the municipality within which they are located. So if you are in an inland lake, different rules regarding licensing might apply.

[cal40john]

Not directly on topic. I don't know if it's being enforced, but Croatia apparently has decided that ASA and USSailing are the schools to have received a certificate from in the U.S. in order to operate a Croatian flagged vessel (charter).

Croatia acceptable license to operate Croatian flagged vessel:
http://www.croatia-yachting-charter....ng-croatia.pdf

Someone inquiring about chartering in Croatia was asked about having a certificate:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...med-58241.html

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by Astral Blue

Speaking only for California, we are not required to have a permit or license to operate a recreational vessel. Some states require the completion of a boater safety course, but California doesn't.

Don't get a ticket!

From: my.Boat-ed.com: Get Your Boating License with the Boat California Course
This boating safety course will satisfy court-ordered mandatory boater education required by California law when a boater is convicted of a moving violation.

[bobconnie]

Ive never had problem anywhere We have cruised, just showed them my Masters papers, and went about my Bizz. it's the best money you can spend is in getting some paper work saying you have a Lics of some sort !! There are serveral good On-line Captains lic sites around. And some states have schools for lic courses, Louisiana has a bunch of schools for this service! mite take ya a while to get your hours but worth it cus you will never have problem anywhere when ya toss the papers at em LOL Plus you learn a bunch which is alSO a big help !! Justa THOUGHT

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by ice

In Europe there is an ICC (international certificate of competency - I think). Has anyone ever been asked for one by an official? Where are they required and where not?

I've never been asked for it by an "official" in the EU when checking in and out it's been the usual:

• Passports of everyone on board;
• Boat ownership/registration docs;
• Evidence of VAT paid in EU (very important);
• Insurance docs.
• Some form of payment for marina/dock fee which i used to get to the customs building (most important).

However, i've always kept the certs tucked inside my passport wallet just in case.

If BB chartering, the charterer will normally want to see my ICC (and/or national certification) and VHF/SRC certificate when we have the obligatory run-through of the boat on day 1 - i normally send these ahead of time scanned-to-PDF.

[Hydra]

There is no such thing as a "sailing license" in France or Britain. However, a "motor yachting license" exists in France.

However, when chartering, it is nice to have the "motor yachting license" to show. In case of a severe accident, it is also useful as a proof of competence for the judge.

About once a year, I am boarded by French Customs (my yacht is French built and registered) and they only request ID (for me, not everybody else onboard) and boat registration document. I have not yet been boarded by the British, Irish or Channel Islands Customs or police.

Alain

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

I've never been asked for it by an "official" in the EU when checking in and out it's been the usual:

• Passports of everyone on board;
• Boat ownership/registration docs;
• Evidence of VAT paid in EU (very important);
• Insurance docs.
• Some form of payment for marina/dock fee which i used to get to the customs building (most important).

However, i've always kept the certs tucked inside my passport wallet just in case.

If BB chartering, the charterer will normally want to see my ICC (and/or national certification) and VHF/SRC certificate when we have the obligatory run-through of the boat on day 1 - i normally send these ahead of time scanned-to-PDF.

The ICC is a curious beast in Europe, Portugal has tried to enforce it, but seems to have given up and Croatia is the only country seemingly demanding it or another equivalent. Greece technically requires it for chartering, but its a hit and miss thing. Several EU countries arnt even signatories to the UN convention that set up the ICC ( paradoxically the US is a signatory, I believe). as a result of a Directive, The ICC with CEVNI extensions is required for inland navigation, irrespective of flag state (and a ATIS VHF radio).


IO have never been asked for my radio cert, Ive never met after "official" who cared about it. I know one person who was fined, but that was after a "run in " with the marine police and they went through his paperwork with a fine tooth comb. ( he was speeding in the port approaches)

as to other documentation In the EU, there are really ( for EU citizens) no check in processes, the marinas managers do the check in and merely look for registration, insurance, and now occasionally passports. In 20 years I have never been asked for VAT papers ( thats one of these internet scares, the RYA did a survey a few years ago and a tiny amount of respondents mentioned getting a VAT inspection, usually because of some other paperwork anomaly).

The EU is remarkably free of paperwork processes for boaters, way less onerous then say foreigners arriving at US ports. In fact if you are from out of the EU , you'll have to go looking for "the official", so you can clear in as they have basically disappeared from many marina ports.

PS: dont volunteer information , remember "no good deed goes unpunished"

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Hydra

About once a year, I am boarded by French Customs (my yacht is French built and registered) and they only request ID (for me, not everybody else onboard) and boat registration document. I have not yet been boarded by the British, Irish or Channel Islands Customs or police.

Alain

you'll never be boarded by Irish authorities, unless you have the wacky baccy, other then that they have one Customs cutter for 1500kms of coastline!!. The police have one sea boat and a RIB!.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

:mite take ya a while to get your hours but worth it cus you will never have problem anywhere when ya toss the papers at em LOL Plus you learn a bunch which is alSO a big help !! Justa THOUGHT

I've always kept that stuff quiet for the same reasons you show it

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Ive never had problem anywhere We have cruised, just showed them my Masters papers, and went about my Bizz. it's the best money you can spend is in getting some paper work saying you have a Lics of some sort !! There are serveral good On-line Captains lic sites around. And some states have schools for lic courses, Louisiana has a bunch of schools for this service! mite take ya a while to get your hours but worth it cus you will never have problem anywhere when ya toss the papers at em LOL Plus you learn a bunch which is alSO a big help !! Justa THOUGHT

That's a good point actually - i've never really thought to much about what they've required.. i've always thrown as much paperwork as I could at them which, invariably, isn't looked at in detail. Maybe the plethora of certs, regardless of value, prompts the "official" into a state of complaicency with regards the rest of the package - I wonder how much a big flashing winch-handle detracts the observers gaze away from the absence of actual winches!?

[goboatingnow]

I find arriving with my " briefcase" of ships papers, That I rarely get asked for anything other then registration and passports ( in commercial ports) and additionally insurance in marinas. I always dress tidy ( which is unusual for me!).


of course thats not to say that the next port will give me trouble.

Dave

[Ex-Calif]

Singapore residents are required to have a PPCDL - personal pleasure craft driving(?) license for any vessel with any sized engine. A sailboat with no engine requires no license. Visitors are exempt except when operating Singapore registered vessels.

I have chartered in Thailand and California. No one is impressed by my license. SOP is to send my sailing resume in advance. Each charter company has required a checkout the first time for a nominal fee. Usually a 1 hour bodge around the bay. I expect an insurance rerquiement.

I have known absoutley novice friends be handed a 36 foot cat in the whitsundays. Apparently they just had to prove fiscal responsibility...