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Old 15-08-2020, 00:00   #1
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Not under command signal and Robot Boats

Maybe we need a new signal for robot boats? This one just completed a 3 week mission...


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Name:	robot <a title=boat.jpg Views: 82 Size: 31.6 KB ID: 221318" style="margin: 2px" />

Full story:
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53787546
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Old 15-08-2020, 01:42   #2
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorphil9 View Post
Maybe we need a new signal for robot boats? This one just completed a 3 week mission...


Attachment 221318

Full story:
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53787546
They are displaying the RAM day signal. I wonder how may people recognise it.:
Rule 27(b)(ii) "three shapes in a vertical line where they can best be seen. The highest and lowest of these shapes shall be balls and the middle one a diamond"

Presumably RAM because they were working a survey pattern.
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Old 15-08-2020, 02:16   #3
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

RAM because they're controlled remotely via a satellite link which may well involve breaks in communication and/or delays perhaps? The article doesn't mention how much autonomy they have. If communication is lost, does it just plough on in it's last known course, or does it heave-to or circle?
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Old 15-08-2020, 02:27   #4
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

Ball, diamond, ball is simply “restricted ability to maneuver” which I take to mean stay well clear and don’t expect it to get out of your way should your courses intersect.
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Old 15-08-2020, 02:58   #5
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

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Originally Posted by Yellowtulip View Post
RAM because they're controlled remotely via a satellite link which may well involve breaks in communication and/or delays perhaps? The article doesn't mention how much autonomy they have. If communication is lost, does it just plough on in it's last known course, or does it heave-to or circle?
With aircraft drones they have a preprogrammed and updated flight plan they will fly if they loose link. It takes then to somewhere that they can be landed via a more conventional ground style control.

I’d wager that boat does something similar, probably set to go to the closet port via a semi updated fallback plan.
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Old 15-08-2020, 04:07   #6
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

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Originally Posted by IslandInfedel View Post
With aircraft drones they have a preprogrammed and updated flight plan they will fly if they loose link. It takes then to somewhere that they can be landed via a more conventional ground style control.

I’d wager that boat does something similar, probably set to go to the closet port via a semi updated fallback plan.


I hope you're right.
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Old 15-08-2020, 04:54   #7
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

So what about the SpaceX drone ships?
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Old 15-08-2020, 05:10   #8
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowtulip View Post
RAM because they're controlled remotely via a satellite link which may well involve breaks in communication and/or delays perhaps? The article doesn't mention how much autonomy they have. If communication is lost, does it just plough on in it's last known course, or does it heave-to or circle?

Probably nothing to do with being remotely controlled. They were mapping the sea floor so would have been covering a survey pattern.



The term “vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre” means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. The term “vessels restricted in their ability to manoeuvre” shall include but not be limited to:
(i) a vessel engaged in laying, servicing or picking up a navigation mark, submarine cable
or pipeline;
(ii) a vessel engaged in dredging, surveying or underwater operations;
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Old 15-08-2020, 05:16   #9
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

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Originally Posted by Fbfisher View Post
Ball, diamond, ball is simply “restricted ability to maneuver” which I take to mean stay well clear and don’t expect it to get out of your way should your courses intersect.

It means follow COLREGS Rule 18. Since it was moving at "up to 4 knots", it would hardly be an overtaking vessel, was not in a narrow channel or TSS so basically everything is required to "keep out of its way".
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Old 15-08-2020, 05:19   #10
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandInfedel View Post
With aircraft drones they have a preprogrammed and updated flight plan they will fly if they loose link. It takes then to somewhere that they can be landed via a more conventional ground style control.

I’d wager that boat does something similar, probably set to go to the closet port via a semi updated fallback plan.

If they've lost the comms link, they'd probably be better classed as NUC, not RAM
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Old 15-08-2020, 06:15   #11
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

It was doing survey work, so that's RAM. If it lost its control link hopefully it would be programmed to go DIW until it was fixed.
One problem with rules like COLREGS is they don't keep up with changes in technology. If these things become more common they're going to have to add rules to COLREGS to accommodate them. They did that for WIG (wing in ground effect) craft a while back.
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Old 15-08-2020, 06:25   #12
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

Restricted in ability to maneuver doesn’t seem correct as the thing is not actually restricted. I’m a vote for needing another category
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Old 15-08-2020, 06:50   #13
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

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Restricted in ability to maneuver doesn’t seem correct as the thing is not actually restricted. I’m a vote for needing another category
Running survey patterns is in the definition of RAM. You have to stay on the pattern or the survey is void.
This is a common misconception with RAM, it actually has nothing to do with whether the vessel can maneuver if it has to, it's whether "The nature of her work" requires her not to maneuver. I like to use highway analogies to explain these things: the truck painting the white line down the center of the road could deviate if it had to, but then the line is no longer where it's supposed to be. Same for the survey vessel, autonomous or crewed.
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Old 15-08-2020, 07:11   #14
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

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Originally Posted by Tingum View Post
Restricted in ability to maneuver doesn’t seem correct as the thing is not actually restricted. I’m a vote for needing another category

See post #8
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Old 26-08-2020, 05:11   #15
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Re: Not under command signal and Robot Boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt jgw View Post
Running survey patterns is in the definition of RAM. You have to stay on the pattern or the survey is void.
This is a common misconception with RAM, it actually has nothing to do with whether the vessel can maneuver if it has to, it's whether "The nature of her work" requires her not to maneuver. I like to use highway analogies to explain these things: the truck painting the white line down the center of the road could deviate if it had to, but then the line is no longer where it's supposed to be. Same for the survey vessel, autonomous or crewed.
Thank you!
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