Mis representing age of boat in sale????

[Pandor]

Still waiting to here back from Geoleo. We don't even know if there was any misrepresentation. More likely misunderstanding of build date vs. model year on the OP's part.

It is the nature of the game that when buying a boat you are usually given the model year rather than the build year. Especially when new, nobody wants to buy a boat that has a date older than the year in which you buy.

But USCG documents a vessel using the build year.

So looking at the first post, Geoleo was told by the seller that the model year was 1991. Then after documenting the vessel, he was upset when the form came back and said the boat was laid down in 1989. Nothing inaccurate here.

That is probably all there is here to see.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Does it really matter? Does the boat meet or exceed your expectations? Does it perform as expected?
These are the most important aspects.
Go forth and enjoy it's use and maintenance.

Yep, assuming you inspected the boat and it met your approval, the year is largely irrelevant at this point. Even if there were particular model year changes that are preferable, you had the opportunity to check for those changes and ultimately, you could have requested to see proof of documentation (not the sellers word for it).

Now if it was a 1yr vs 3yr old million dollar boat, you may have a legitimate claim as depreciation in the first few years is typically sizable.

By the time you get around 30yr old, depreciation is done and condition is everything. A year or two makes almost no difference in a small sail boat price.

Take it as a learning experience that really cost you nothing and move on.

[friz]

Should not there have been a "Title" involved in the purchase? I have no experience with CG documented boats so don't know the relationship. I would think there would have been a title when first purchased.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by geoleo

I bought a boat that was advertised on Craigslist that it was a 1991 model. The seller also gave me a USCG Bill of Sale form (notarized by him) stating that it was a 1991 . He said he lost the current USCG Document form and had to order a replacement. Well I have found out since that the boat is actually a 1989 built boat. So I have a 2 year older boat than was represented by the seller. Shouldn't the seller pay me for this misrepresentation?

The HIN tells you the year of the boat. You don't give your make/model but for some limited production/one-off boats the HIN is the year the hull was made and it could be a year or more before the boat was finished...perhaps the latter is what the previous owner is telling you.

On another note I sometimes see a boat listed for sale with something like 1980/2000 as the year supposedly meaning that the boat had a refit in the latter year. That's another note the buyer needs to look into.

On a second note, often I see a boat's engine hours as very low for its age possibly meaning that an overhaul of the original block was done. That may be good or bad as my rule is that an overhaul is only as good as the man that did the job...for me it is still an old engine!

Lastly, some sellers will post very old photos of the boat that no longer resemble the current condition or worst yet sister-ship photos. Nothing can beat actually looking at what your money is really buying. I appreciate photos with a date stamp on them but that doesn't supersede an actual visit to the boat.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[KadeyKrogen38]

Bottom line on all of these comments is that a boats value is totally about condition NOT age.

[somanyboats]

A Notary's stamp is to verify the identity and signature of the person signing the paper. That is why you sign in front of them and present your i.d.
It has nothing to do with the content of the papers being signed.
I don't it is legal for the person signing the paper to be the person verifying the signature. I would check the hin with the CG doc to see if they match

[foothillsailor]

Fuhget about it. I doubt if you will have suffered any real damages ---monetary that is ---- probably very little difference in a boat's value between a 30 vs 32 year old boat, unless there was some well-known attribute or characteristic of the earlier model which clearly lowers its value compared to later models (eg. a hull blister problem which the builder corrected in later models) ... even then, it probably would be very difficult to prove your case .... don't be surprised if the seller tells you (politely) to go pound sand ... as a retired lawyer, when someone came into see me with a complaint similar to yours, that it turned out that the aggrieved buyer either (a) really just wanted some pretext to try and squeeze some money out of the seller that they couldn't get when negotiating the purchase or (b) buyer/complainer was suffering after-the-fact buyer's remorse or (c) had discovered some other shortfall or defect in the object purchased for which they had assumed the risk by not doing their own due diligence (eg: mechanic's inspection etc) ----- obviously I am not overly sympathetic to your complaint ---- my recommendation is suck it up, move on, and go and enjoy the dream that you were pursuing when you bought the boat

[zstine]

it is the responsibility of the buyer to verify the data represented. if you read any creditable listing on yachtworld, etc. you will see a disclaimer that info is believed to be true but not guaranteed. it would have cost you $25 to get the documentation history from uscg. you didn't. that's not the sellers fault.. he may have thought it was what he said it was

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Seriously?

My sentiments exactly.

Two years that far back in the boat market means next to nothing, even if it was more than just a build-to-registration delay. You did the wise thing by buying a middle-aged boat.

You could look up this design at sailboatdata.com. There will often be information on any changes made to boat designs over the years.

Since you are asking, it seems you may have "buyers remorse". Many get that. Unless you find something more significant, you'll get over it when you spend the time enjoying your boat instead of contemplating the alternatives.

[Hoodsail]

I'm with Montanan, never ask her age....but I did covertly check her "birth certificate" aka HIN...
Oh, and 1991 or 1989 is not old, plezzzzzzzzze! its just outside of manu warranty a bit.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by geoleo

Shouldnt the seller pay me for this misrepresentation?

I’ll be happy to mail you the $0.02 which is likely the extent of damages you could demonstrate. Out of curiosity, how much do you think the value differs between a 30 year old boat and a 31 year old one?

[Shrew]

The HIN says it all and it should be very easy to locate and read. (example of post 08/01/1984 HIN Format).

ABC 12345 L8 89

Manufacturers Identification Code (MIC): ABC

Hull Serial Number: 12345

Date of Certification or Manufacture: C3

Model Year: 89

For Date of Certification:
Jan = A
Feb = B
Mar = C
Apr = D
..
Dec = L

The Letter of the certification or manufacture should denote the month it was built. The following number should be the last number of the year it was built. It typically coincides with the last number of the Model Year or be slightly greater or less (usually less) than the model year.

So, in the case of "L8 89" the boat was manufactured in December of 1988 and is a 1989 model.

I couldn't imagine a 1991 Model Year boat being built in 1989. I couldn't imagine anyone continuing to build a Model year 1989 boat out to 1991 either.

All that aside......you didn't look at the HIN? Paperwork mistakes happen.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Shrew

The HIN says it all and it should be very easy to locate and read. (example of post 08/01/1984 HIN Format).

ABC 12345 L8 89

Manufacturers Identification Code (MIC): ABC

Hull Serial Number: 12345

Date of Certification or Manufacture: C3

Model Year: 89

For Date of Certification:
Jan = A
Feb = B
Mar = C
Apr = D
..
Dec = L

The Letter of the certification or manufacture should denote the month it was built. The following number should be the last number of the year it was built. It typically coincides with the last number of the Model Year or be slightly greater or less (usually less) than the model year.

So, in the case of "L8 89" the boat was manufactured in December of 1988 and is a 1989 model.

I couldn't imagine a 1991 Model Year boat being built in 1989. I couldn't imagine anyone continuing to build a Model year 1989 boat out to 1991 either.

All that aside......you didn't look at the HIN? Paperwork mistakes happen.

There are actually four versions of HIN/MIC's
What is a HIN

[Cheechako]

Meh, 89/91 same value. It's more about condition.
Could have been built in 89 and first sold/registered in 91, not uncommon.
Your a boat owner now, don't you have maintenance to get working on?

Was he old? Maybe he didn't remember. Heck, sometimes I'm a year off on my own age!

Seriously though, bought a boat with no title to prove he even owns it? It would have been a salvage title.

[Cliffhanger]

Boats, house and cars have different depreciation curves. Cars depreciate consistently until they are worth nothing. Or until they become rare classics and then the value rises again. Houses typically just gain in value at a rate that depends on maintenance, upgrades and design (and of course location). Boats are somewhere in between cars and houses. For the first 10 years or so they depreciate like a car. After that, it depends on maintenance and upgrades (and design). A well maintained 30 year old boat with a solid teak interior, new engine, new rigging, fully kitted out for cruising can be worth more than a 12 year old boat with all original equipment.
I am just pointing this out because whether your boat is 30 or 32 yrs old does much less to the value than how well it has been looked after.