Greece- requirement to change "user" every 6 month on 18 month transit log?

[David B]

I will certainly be interested to follow this, as we are looking at entering Greece next June for around a month. If we get there, we may continue on to Turkey, and leave our boat (VAT unpaid, Australian registered) there for the year, or we may leave her in Greece (as I understand, that would have to be out of the water).
By June, we will have re-set our VAT clock in Albania or Montenegro.
Would be interested to hear others experiences.

[dlymn]

Not so sure that "out of the water" will solve much. I thought that this matter is not a fine but actually a tax for keeping the boat in Greece. We were told that if we left our boat in Greece, customs would charge us 300 euros for every 3 months after the first six months (now that six month warning starts to make sense).
we make sure that we return the transit log when we leave an state very clearly that we are taking the boat out of Greece.

[SY_Maria]

Dlymn, when was that you were warned about 6 month?

[dlymn]

SY Maria we were in Preveza in 2013. I was dealing with the Port Police tidying up my transit log which had not been processed correctly on entry. While this was happening, one of the officers warned me about this tax and even calculated the annual cost. Since then I have read of other sailors who have had to many hundreds of euros in taxes after storing their boat for the winter in Greece. I realized that it was important to return the transit log as you leave Greece. As with all Greek bureaucracy, it all depends on who you deal with.

[David B]

One of those dumb taxes that scares business away from a country then. The hard-stand yards and marinas will be hurting.
Conversely, New Zealand worked our long ago that visiting yachties are actually good for the country so there is no entry charge, you receive a welcome pack from the officials, and you can stay for two years with no charges.
Well, hopefully the Greek authorities will realise this tax is counter-productive - in the meantime many will go elsewhere I suspect.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by David B

I will certainly be interested to follow this, as we are looking at entering Greece next June for around a month. If we get there, we may continue on to Turkey, and leave our boat (VAT unpaid, Australian registered) there for the year, or we may leave her in Greece (as I understand, that would have to be out of the water).
By June, we will have re-set our VAT clock in Albania or Montenegro.
Would be interested to hear others experiences.

Italian rules make it very easy to store your VAT (IVA) unpaid boat out of the water. Just have it placed in a customs bond and none of the time spent on the hard counts towards your VAT clock. PM me if you need details.

Croatia is then just 20 miles away and not part of the Schengen treaty, if you need to spend 90 days outside the Schengen countries for visa issues in a beautiful place. Montenegro is also fantastic. The Adriatic makes it very easy to stay indefinitely.

[dlymn]

You can also put your boat into bond in Greece. That stops the 18 month transit limit which continues when you take it out of bond but I don't think it stops the duration tax. Boats that stay in marinas seem to have this tax paid, but there are many more places to stay than the big marinas. There are places in Greece where you can tie up to the quay and walk away to come back to the boat next year. You can even pay a local to keep an eye on it. Just make sure that you've got very strong mooring lines No-one seems to charge them although they should. These people will hand in their DEKPA or their transit log and tell the port police and customs that they are leaving the country. When they return they get a new log and start all over again. Greece has some excellent sailing areas and the government seems to encourage people to sail there. Even though there are tough laws, it is only the occasional bureaucrat that enforces them. I can understand this view because we usually spend 1,000 euros a week when we sail there.

BTW only the big marinas charge fees. Villages that have port police charge 8 Euros a day and if there's no port police office, then it is up to you to visit the nearest office which might be 20k away. Some places have basic marinas and will charge you 11-15 euros a day to stay. There are plenty of bays to anchor in. You probably won't get electricity in the small villages but water is usually available. The food is reasonably priced, the beer is cheap enough, the winds are reasonably predictable. Come on over!!!

[David B]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Italian rules make it very easy to store your VAT (IVA) unpaid boat out of the water. Just have it placed in a customs bond and none of the time spent on the hard counts towards your VAT clock. PM me if you need details.

Croatia is then just 20 miles away and not part of the Schengen treaty, if you need to spend 90 days outside the Schengen countries for visa issues in a beautiful place. Montenegro is also fantastic. The Adriatic makes it very easy to stay indefinitely.

Yes, that was my understanding, but checking now (perhaps it changed) the immobilisation period - no matter how long - can only save you 6 months max, so the 18 month VAT period can only be 24 months max, not 18 months plus (say) a year of immobilisation.

[Polux]

Independently of the law in Greece there is a general confusion and ignorance of the law by some port authorities.

Having been sailing there for 4 seasons I can tell you that not only the procedures in what regards the log book are different from port to port (and they should not be) as the authorities in a given port got seriously pissed with me because their own authorities in another port messed up (according to them) and I had some problems to go out of Greece with a clean log book.

This year on a port the port authority wrote in red over what another port authority had put there saying the others didn't know what they were doing!!!!

So take care where you take your information regarding that subject, giving the state of general confusion that goes in Greece. Sometimes it seems to me that they love arguing and love confusion.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by David B

Yes, that was my understanding, but checking now (perhaps it changed) the immobilisation period - no matter how long - can only save you 6 months max, so the 18 month VAT period can only be 24 months max, not 18 months plus (say) a year of immobilisation.

Italy is different, each country has it's own bond rules. That's why so many ships pull into Italy for long term refits. Did you contact an Italian customs bond agent or official? Or just going be what you've been reading on the internet.

[Palarran]

I just ended my forth year in Greece with my boat put on the hard at Olympic Marina near Athens. We are pretty used to the procedures that almost all port authorities follow. When you arrive, you need to go first to immigration, then to customs who fills out the transit log, then the port police to register your crew list and get your first port stamp. If you are leaving within 24 hours, you can also get your exit stamp, otherwise you will need to return. They are not too strict on getting subsequent entry stamps, but do seem to care that your leaving within a day. You only need to get port stamps at ports that have authorities. We generally try to space them out so we only have to visit a port authority every 4 days or so. Absolutely you need to go when you change crew.

When you leave the boat on the hard, you need to first get a statement from the marina that the boat is hauled, or going to be hauled on such date. Then you will go to the port authority to get your entry stamp for that area, then to the customs office to turn in the transit log. They will fill out a one page receipt and give it to you. When you return they give you the same transit log back. If you are leaving the country with the boat, you need to go - port authority, customs, then finally immigration (I think).

It's really pretty easy and only takes a few hours.

As for the change of boat user, never heard anyone mention that and would suspect the agent is mistaken. You can contact Kronos Agency on Rhodes and ask them - they are the best and worth every euro you pay them. One other thing about creating a relationship with Kronos, they know everyone and have contacts on all major islands. If you're a customer and need help, it's literally a phone call away. One thing you need to remember is that NONE of these government people except immigration really cares to be doing this task. It gets in the way of cigarettes and coffee time.

Last, I don't think you can put the boat in "bond" and prolong the 18 months. It's a date set on the first page of the log and no one has ever suggested it changes because I've turned in the log to customs.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I just ended my forth year in Greece with my boat put on the hard at Olympic Marina near Athens. We are pretty used to the procedures that almost all port authorities follow. When you arrive, you need to go first to immigration, then to customs who fills out the transit log, then the port police to register your crew list and get your first port stamp. If you are leaving within 24 hours, you can also get your exit stamp, otherwise you will need to return. They are not too strict on getting subsequent entry stamps, but do seem to care that your leaving within a day. You only need to get port stamps at ports that have authorities. We generally try to space them out so we only have to visit a port authority every 4 days or so. Absolutely you need to go when you change crew.
...

According with at least two port authorities subsequent port stamps are nor needed. Just the one for entering in Greece and another when you going out. The law was modified regarding this recently but many port authorities ignore the new law.

I have on my log book, wrote at red over a previous port entry, that was stricken out, something like this: "There is only need of a a entry register and a out register". It was done by a pissed graduated port authority that told me that was all I need for 12 months.

But I have a EU boat and I am a EU citizen, maybe things are different for non EU citizens, but I doubt, I mean regarding the need to stamp in any port with port authorities.

[Palarran]

Polux, you must be on a Depka, not a transit log. The instructions are printed in the back and in english. I'm sure that after collecting 20 stamps this year someone would have told me that you don't need to do this anymore.

[touchngo]

Just thought I'd clarify the "tax" that dlymn mentioned. It is the "Reciprocal Tax" (which is funny in that no one else reciprocates) and has been in effect for a very long time for Non EU vessels. It is more commonly called a Cruising Tax, which is not to be confused with the more recent TPP which has not been enacted. Noonsite has a post that details it in depth. In short, it is legally due if you have been in Greece for more than 3 months. IF asked (note the big IF...) You will need to go to the local tax office to obtain an invoice, go to the bank to settle the invoice, return to the tax office with that, get the stamp and then take the receipt back to the Port Police.

Like many, we have tended to move in and out of Greece through the year getting 3 month Schengen Visas, so have never had the issue.

We obtained Long Term Visas earlier in the year and are 6 months in Greece on this particular TL, and having sailed through the Dods, Cyclades, Peloponnese, Argolic, Saroic, Evia Channel, Eastern Sporades, Khalkidhiki, Northern Sporades and back into the Dods, we have been asked about this ZERO (0) times. Sods law being what it is, no doubt we will be asked about it tomorrow!

Still, we knew about its existence when we decided to spend the year here, and have budgeted for it.

Hope this helps someone.

PT

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Polux, you must be on a Depka, not a transit log. The instructions are printed in the back and in english. I'm sure that after collecting 20 stamps this year someone would have told me that you don't need to do this anymore.

I don't know what is a Depka. It is just some papers (big) with space for stamps, entry and out registers. Never bother to see if they had any instructions that would now be obsolete anyway, because the law had changed since I had those papers (4 years ago). Is that a Depka?