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Old 07-10-2019, 21:48   #1
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Foil Boats, New Rules?

Will there be new Rules/LIGHTS for 50 knot Foil Boats?

Perhaps Seaplanes or WIG?

RULE 18
Except where Rule 9, Rule 10, and Rule 13 otherwise require:
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
........

(e) A seaplane on the water shall, in general, keep well clear of all vessels and avoid impeding their navigation. In circumstances, however, where risk of collision exists, she shall comply with the Rules of this part.
(f)

(i) A WIG craft, when taking off, landing and in flight near the surface, shall keep well clear of all other vessels and avoid impeding their navigation;
(ii) A WIG craft operating on the water surface shall comply with the Rules of this Part as a power-driven vessel.
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Old 07-10-2019, 23:11   #2
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

I doubt if foiling sailboats can be lumped in with powered craft like seaplanes.

They may be fast, but they still can't go directly upwind.
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Old 07-10-2019, 23:19   #3
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

Good question and thread.

I'm not sure that the additional speed requires any changes except maybe lights at night?
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:47   #4
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

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Originally Posted by tp12 View Post
Good question and thread.

I'm not sure that the additional speed requires any changes except maybe lights at night?
I remember the Marine College discussion on Seaplanes, that because they moved so fast, the onus was on them to stay clear of other traffic .

I would imagine common sense would suggest the same for 30+ knot sailing vessels.... just wonder if this will become an amendment to Rule 18
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Old 08-10-2019, 06:46   #5
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I remember the Marine College discussion on Seaplanes, that because they moved so fast, the onus was on them to stay clear of other traffic .

I would imagine common sense would suggest the same for 30+ knot sailing vessels.... just wonder if this will become an amendment to Rule 18
I would have thought no for the reason that 44c said. Seaplanes can go in any direction and the foilers can't. Manoeuvrability seems to be a big consideration in the Colregs, too.
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Old 08-10-2019, 07:09   #6
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

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Originally Posted by tp12 View Post
I would have thought no for the reason that 44c said. Seaplanes can go in any direction and the foilers can't. Manoeuvrability seems to be a big consideration in the Colregs, too.
That is an important consideration if in a narrow channel,.......
.... but a fully laden coastal tanker doing 11 knots may have trouble giving way to a 30 knot sailboat tacking up the channel.

We don't know yet what evolution and benefits foiled monos and cats will go thru, but suppose if they were to combine Foil with WIG hull design under sail, i think that craft would need to maintain speed in order to be comfortable going 30-50 knts above the waves.
I know, sounds impossible, but if it happens, sailing vessels like that would need to keep out of the way of all other traffic.

https://youtu.be/GqQTfflBjnc
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Old 08-10-2019, 07:46   #7
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

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That is an important consideration if in a narrow channel,.......
.... but a fully laden coastal tanker doing 11 knots may have trouble giving way to a 30 knot sailboat tacking up the channel.

We don't know yet what evolution and benefits foiled monos and cats will go thru, but suppose if they were to combine Foil with WIG hull design under sail, i think that craft would need to maintain speed in order to be comfortable going 30-50 knts above the waves.
I know, sounds impossible, but if it happens, sailing vessels like that would need to keep out of the way of all other traffic.

https://youtu.be/GqQTfflBjnc
I'd assume that the restricted manoeuvrability of a tanker in a channel would be higher on the list for standing on than a foiling boat. But a foiling boat would be higher on the list than a seaplane.

It's not just a channel that restricts manoeuvrability; towing does, being engaged in fishing does etc and a sailing boat that can't go to windward is more restricted than a vessel that can go to windward.

The issue, in my eyes, would be more about recognising that it's a sailing boat that can do powerboat speeds. I don't think that's such an issue in daylight but at night it might be. I'm thinking of the steaming light.

Regarding underhull shape, I don't understand what you mean?
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Old 08-10-2019, 07:56   #8
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

A 100 MPH offshore racing boat doesn't require special lighting. There are plenty of 50kt power boats out there. Why would there be a need for a special set of navigation lights?
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:24   #9
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

Dockhead already covered what happens when one boat is 4:1 or more faster than another vessel.


http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...pa-189919.html



It's already in the rules.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:03   #10
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

Foiling sailboats don't necessarily foil all the time (even if they can they don't have to) - so tacking up a narrow channel at 30-40 knots would seem imprudent and impractical....(but of course it'll happen, sometime, somewhere, with some ego or testosterone -driven sailor!). But still, such vessels wouldn't seem to qualify as particularly "maneuverability-restricted", would they now?
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:47   #11
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

How about COLREGS Rule 6 - Safe Speed?
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:56   #12
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

I think Rule 18 is very clear,
"(i) A WIG (Wing In Ground, Foil born) craft, when taking off, landing and in flight near the surface, shall keep well clear of all other vessels and avoid impeding their navigation;
(ii) A WIG craft operating on the water surface shall comply with the Rules of this Part as a power-driven vessel."

Also not sure where or how worded, but "An overtaking vessel shall bear the burden of keeping clear of other vessels". This is also codified in Rules of the Road for Aircraft, land vehicles, as well as water born vessels.
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:38   #13
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

Around here, high speed ferries display a bright yellow rotating light, day and night, to alert people...just because they are arriving in your vicinity so soon. They are also burdened to maintain course and speed. That is, they are the stand on vessel.

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Old 08-10-2019, 13:45   #14
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

When we were out watching the foiling cats practicing in Sydney harbour there was about 5-7 knots wind, we were drifting about with just the main up, doing maybe 3 knots. The F50s were doing 20+.

On a couple of occasions they ducked under us, even though we were on port, they on starboard.

It was just common sense, there wasn't much we could do to get out of their way, given the speed difference.
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Old 08-10-2019, 14:33   #15
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Re: Foil Boats, New Rules?

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Originally Posted by tp12 View Post
I would have thought no for the reason that 44c said. Seaplanes can go in any direction and the foilers can't. Manoeuvrability seems to be a big consideration in the Colregs, too.
Ever try to taxi or takeoff/land in a 30 knot crosswind in a Cessna 182? Light aircraft aren't as all-powerful as perhaps folks give them credit for!
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