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Old 21-08-2018, 16:33   #1
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Post Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

Greetings.
I'm sure you have met light version of Dutch yacht registration. There are several agents over the internet selling it at the same price. The issued certificate looks like in the attachment but containing suspecious fields - there is no vessel registration number and the flag is not applicable.

I suspect it's some kind of scam or invalid/not recognized registration for international usage. The registring agent assures that he has boats cruising the world with such registration with no problems.
My concern is that every proper international check-in with officials you have to specify flag and registration numbers. But probably there are other options too.
Do you think this is legit registration?
What does this mean regarding flag and tax?

Appreciate reference to official sources or documents.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 21-08-2018, 17:29   #2
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

I have used it before, not extensively (granted) but have entered the US and Bahamas with it and faced no problems.

I used these guys:

https://www.boatandyachtregistration.com

The validity (as in a government paper) of the registration is debatable, it is offered in the Netherlands for local boats that since it is not MANDATORY to do the complicated "full blown" registration, most boats are not registered. So this association went out of their way to offer an alternative so people could cruise through europe with their small yachts from the Netherlands. With 3rd parties it is also a way for some of us who have no real easy or sensible way to register a yacht to do it. World bureocracy.

The flag I cant remember what my paper says, but Im sure it doesn't say Not Applicable. And the Registry Number wass just my HIN that was on my bill of sale.

They also processed my MMSI and Radio License.

I have gone another route for next year, since I finally settled down in a place where I can register easily.

Hope this helps.
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Old 22-08-2018, 07:22   #3
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

Like the UK ‘ssr’ the dutch registration is not an official document issued by the dutch government

But it is widely accepted as an official registration
Being dutch on a dutch boat boat using this form of unofficial registration we just checked into morocco with it , no problems at all
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Old 23-08-2018, 01:49   #4
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

I've got another and less pleasant answer on another thread on Facebook. It seems that not everything so bright as appears.

Quote:
We have been informed since the beginning of july, by our partner Watersportverbond, whom issues the Dutch certificates, that the Dutch ministry will no longer recognize these certificates as official navigation certificates but as ownership certificats only.

This means that this document can not be used in European waters that require a navigation title.

We are advising our clients to consider a change in flag.

Please contact our services in order to discuss other flag and radio licence options that can meet your expectations

Best regards.

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Old 23-08-2018, 02:17   #5
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

I'm Dutch, and I never even knew it was supposed to be both a registration and navigation certificate ... Nor did anyone I just asked here in the marina

What paperwork was it supposed to replace?

We don't have a mandatory boat registration system for pleasure crafts; unless there's a mortgage on the boat. That's where the kadaster comes into play (https://www.kadaster.nl/schepen). If there's no mortgage on the boat, registration is optional.

When visiting other countries, we use the same unofficial certificate by the Watersportverbond to proof ownership. The kadaster paperwork is pretty much useless outside of the Netherlands, eventhough it's the only official registration we have ...
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Old 23-08-2018, 03:27   #6
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

The dutch ICP was never , and has never been recognized as, an ‘official’ piece of paper
The only proof of ownership is your purchase contract

It is however recognized as ‘registry entry’ by countries that require a form of registration
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Old 04-09-2018, 02:14   #7
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

The ICP is nothing more than a proof of ownership, that was originally introduced to stimulate tourism on the inland waters of the EU. It is an un-official ownerships document that is recognised within the EU. That it is also accepted outside of the EU is common, but from a formal point of view the document is only valid within the EU.

Up until July of this year the ICP stated as flag “Dutch”, which basically means that you could sail under the flag of the Netherlands.

As you might recall that just before the summer the German vessel Lifeline had picked-up refugees off the coast of Libya and wanted to moor in Italy, which they were denied. The boat was sailing with an ICP. As they were sailing under the Dutch flag, they were incorrectly claiming that the vessel had the Dutch nationality.

Within just a few weeks the Dutch Ministry of Infrastructure and Water Management had changes made to the document. Now it no longer states “Dutch” with regard to the flag, but “non-applicable”. To clarify matters the ICP document also states the following :

Prior to issue of this document ownership has been rendered credible. This certificate is valid only as long as the particulars have not changed. In case of change, it must be returned to the issuing organization for amendment.

This document can not be interpreted as giving Dutch nationality to the craft, nor does it constitute the right to fly the flag of the Kingdom of the Netherlands as defined by Article 9 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). Consequently the Kingdom of the Netherlands does not accept any of the responsibilities listed in article 94 of UNCLOS.


So to answer the original question : the ICP as issued in the Netherlands by any of the two agencies * who are authorised to do so, is most definitely no scam. If you are not sure whether the ICP you have is authentic, then you best have the No. of Certificate verified by the issuing agency.

(*) The agencies whom have been appointed by the Dutch Ministry of Infrastructure and Water Management to issue ICP’s are Koninklijk Watersportverbond and KNMC.
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Old 04-09-2018, 05:17   #8
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

For reference purposes, this is how ICP’s look like that have been issued after mid July 2018.
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:04   #9
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

According to some sources, state flag is synonym to Country of Registration. Isn't it Netherlands in case of ICP registration, despite the not applicable notice in the certificate?

The more I'm reading on the matter the less I understand the importance and legal aspects of the state flag for recreational vessel.

Which flag should be flown on the stern of the vessel with mentioned certificate?
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Old 04-09-2018, 07:34   #10
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

Like, for example, in Germany, France and the Netherlands there are two types of registration.
- Unofficial, which is the ICP (International Certificate Pleasure Crafts)
- Official, which is the formal ships registrar whereby the official Certificate of Registry is issued

It is basically very simple. Strictly speaking, if you only want to sail the inland waters of the EU, then an ICP will do. As soon as you want to sail international waters a Certificate of Registry is advisable, if you want to keep your mind at rest as not all countries may (no longer) accept the ICP.

As I mentioned before the ICP is in general internationally accepted and therefore there are many owners of pleasure crafts that sail the international waters without a single problem, whereby strictly speaking it is only meant for inland waters.

As a pleasure craft owner who sails international waters I would always advice you to register in a formal ships registrar, be it that of your own country or of a flag state with favourable conditions.

PS : Do keep in mind that ICP owners who have stated “Flag Dutch”, as issued before mid July 2018, may sail under the flag of the Netherlands, as the document states so.
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Old 15-10-2018, 13:53   #11
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

The ICP is not a scam. Actually the Royal Dutch Watersport Association (Watersportverbond) is formally appointed by the Dutch government to handle these type of ownership registration in their name.

This can easily be proven by the United Nations document in which all is clearly stated (article 54).

Many times yacht owners first look at the price of a yacht registration and choose the cheapest option.

More wise is first to look what people really need.

Yacht Registration Holland has a helpful simple tool to help people choose the right yacht registration. Just answer 5 simple questions at https://yachtregistration.company.

They offer not only the 2 Dutch registrations but also the UK Part 1 and Belgian registrations.
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:29   #12
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

Another question directly related to this registration.
Assume the boat has new ICP registration (after July 2018) and owned by a UK company, owned by non-EU citizen (as sold on several websites on-line). The boat is located outside the EU at the moment of purchase and the registration.
Does EU VAT apply on the vessel on entry to EU waters? Which exact regulation applicable here?
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Old 24-02-2020, 16:12   #13
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

My boat is in the pacific ocean continuing cruising the world. I applied for a re-registration from Panama to EU ICP light using Yacht Registration Holland.
I was surprised how easy that was, considering in Panama I needed notary public AND apostille certifing each and every document.
The Dutch are one of the only country that accept me as a Swiss i.e. Switzerland not being in the EU. Also the insurance for TPL and personal accident in given sailing areas was as a result straight forward.
I got an MMSI 232xxxxxx and will reconfigure the EPIRB.
So far so good. The only questions remaining for me are:
a) What happens if I pass the Suez channel and enter the Med in terms of VAT?
b) As the Dutch do not see the EU ICP as their national registration what would happen if I throw my EPIRB with the MMSI 232xxxxxx into the water? Is there an upfront political discussion on who is going to save me????
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Old 25-02-2020, 01:23   #14
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navado View Post
Another question directly related to this registration.
Assume the boat has new ICP registration (after July 2018) and owned by a UK company, owned by non-EU citizen (as sold on several websites on-line). The boat is located outside the EU at the moment of purchase and the registration.
Does EU VAT apply on the vessel on entry to EU waters? Which exact regulation applicable here?
In general, if the boat is owned by a UK company and purchased out-side of the EU, then it has been imported. Therefore import duties should have been paid as well as VAT. If and when navigating EU waters and the authorities ask for prove and you can not present such prove, you will have to pay in full, including a fine.
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Old 25-02-2020, 09:55   #15
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Re: Dutch light yacht registration - scam or legit?

Sounds like the topic being discussed is the cause of this issue...
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...rs-230538.html
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