Drifting fishermen

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Jammer

It depends.

Case law holds that there is a rebuttable presumption that a moving vessel is at fault when it allides with a stationary vessel (or other object). But a boat adrift is not stationary.


No it doesn't depend. Case Law is irrelevant to the question of which vessel is Stand On under COLREGs.


An overtaking sailboat (based on the direction of movement) would be the stand-on vessel. Otherwise,


Incorrect. If overtaking, you are always the gve way vessel regardless of whether you are under power or sail.

(The message I entered was too short)

[markpierce]

Technically, fishing with a pole is not "fishing" because it doesn't restrict maneuverability like in dragging heavy nets.

Motor-boat fishermen not in the channel:

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

I believe if they are not docked or anchored, they are considered to be underway even if drifting. Their lack of headway ought to make any crossing irrelevant unless you ram them, which even as the stand on vessel is not permitted. It is doubtful they understand they are the burdened vessel.

They are fishing, that means that they are not the burdened vessel, you are.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Technically, fishing with a pole is not "fishing" because it doesn't restrict maneuverability like in dragging heavy nets.

Doesn't matter if it restricts manoeuvrability. fishing is fishing. No exemptions in the COLREGs that I know.Whatever type of fishing you do, you are "engaged in fishing"

Also, if the fishing vessel has no gear in the water, she may still be engaged in fishing.

[clownfishsydney]

Most times when approaching a stationary boat, you will not know if it is anchored or drifting or trolling very slowly. Always best to assume it is anchored and make course changes as appropriate.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Svan

The actual regulations:
https://assets.publishing.service.go...65/msn1781.pdf

"Except where Rules 9,10 and 13 otherwise require:

(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.

and

Rule 9(c): "A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any other vessel navigating within a narrow channel or fairway."

Which is irrelevant in the given situation. Look at the definition of "engaged in fishing"

[StuM]

Originally Posted by MartinR

Doesn't matter if it restricts manoeuvrability. fishing is fishing. No exemptions in the COLREGs that I know.Whatever type of fishing you do, you are "engaged in fishing"

Also, if the fishing vessel has no gear in the water, she may still be engaged in fishing.

You really should read COLREGs rather than trotting out the same old misconception.



3(d) The term “vessel engaged in fishing” means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict manoeuvrability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manoeuvrability

[jmh2002]

And I hope they all have their day shapes up to indicate that they are “a vessel engaged in fishing”...

[conachair]

Originally Posted by StuM

You really should read COLREGs rather than trotting out the same old misconception.



3(d) The term “vessel engaged in fishing” means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict manoeuvrability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manoeuvrability

From Cockcroft v6

[Benz]

^^^I was about to mention this. Boats which cannot freely maneuver because of fishing or dredging are required to show special daymarks or lights so other people know what to expect of them. That way others can safely plan their passage in advance, because they know exactly what's going on.
There's probably a penalty for using those marks wrongly, but I haven't run across that yet.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by markpierce

If one is able to get past the obstruction, how can one say another boat is blocking the channel?

Originally Posted by Shenandoah52

So you were able to get around them but you want the CG to spend resources on someone "blocking the channel"? Do you call the CG because of a sandbar? That's a rhetorical question.

1. Be able to get past isn't relevant. As others including Benz have noted the inconsiderate boaters add risk to others. Remember my scenario was a hypothetical.



2. Calling the CG (or local equivalent) may be as simple as making me feel better. *grin*


3. It is reasonable to expect that someone who fishes while drifting in a channel does so more than once and a little official intervention could improve behavior.



4. If there is a sandbar of any substance depending on circumstances I may engage with one or more of: local Coast Guard station whose boat crews may find the sandbar of note, ActiveCaptain/Waterway Guide for hazards, NOAA for chart updates, and TowBoatUS and SeaTow. When I have the time and comm links I like giving back to the boating community.

Originally Posted by boatpoker

As much as I dislike it, the term "right of way" is used in US Inland Rules.

In two places, with respect to Public Safety Activities (which essentially says that being engaged in public safety activities do NOT have right of way) and with respect to non-tidal inland rivers and waterways.

Originally Posted by markpierce

It is unseamanlike for any boat to intentionally drift in a narrow channel, whether motor boat, sailboat, or whatever.

On that we can agree.

[Dockhead]

I've been reading this thread with interest, but I confess that I find it frustrating that I have absolutely nothing to contribute and not a single thing to add to the excellent posts of StuM, Auspicious, and others, which if studied carefully, will clear up many common misconceptions


Not saying anything new here at all, but (a) people doing recreational fishing with rods should follow the Rules and give way when required; (b) such folks should not drift around in channels; (c) other folks expecting recreational fishermen to give way should be realistic about the chances of that, and take advantage of their rights under Rule 17(a)(ii) (which are already triggered when you first see the guy not behind the helm and with a beer can in his hand -- "as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action") and take early and effective action to unwind potential collisions, and by all means follow Rule 17(b) and Rule 2.


And I agree with Auspicious about calling the CG. Drifting around in channels is not only forbidden, but it's positively dangerous. That's worth reporting like any other behavior which puts others in danger.


With regard to fishermen drifting around NOT in a channel, however -- I behave as I do with sailboats racing -- keep well clear to the extent possible, courteously, in order not to interfere with their fun. The Rules allow you to do this even if you are the stand-on vessel provided you take action BEFORE a risk of collision arises, and it is the decent thing to do.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

In two places, with respect to Public Safety Activities (which essentially says that being engaged in public safety activities do NOT have right of way) and with respect to non-tidal inland rivers and waterways.

You are correct. The two references concerning downstream/upstream ROW use the term "right-of-way".



The one under Public Safety uses "right of way" without the hyphens. I missed the second form on my search of the Rules.



It is actually in Annex V and refers specifically to displaying lights. (There is no Annex V in COLREGs)

88.07 (a)
Vessels engaged in government sanctioned public safety activities, and
commercial vessels performing similar functions, may display an alternately flashing red and yellow light signal. This identification light signal must be located so that it does not interfere with the visibility of the vessel’s navigation lights. The identification light signal may be used only as an identification signal and conveys no special privilege. Vessels using the identification light signal during public safety activities must abide by the Inland Navigation Rules, and must not presume that the light or the exigency gives them precedence or right of way.

[CFS Klopas]

Maybe, but my state and prob most others has this law:

(b) Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency watercraft making use of rotating or flashing visual signals and lawfully making use of a visual signal, the operator of every other watercraft shall yield the right-of-way and shall immediately reduce the speed of the watercraft,

In the US, boating laws that get enforced have more to do with mirroring traffic laws than mirroring COLREGS. However mirroring COLREGS also applies, there is another law that prohibits blocking boat traffic in channels

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by MartinR

Doesn't matter if it restricts manoeuvrability. fishing is fishing. No exemptions in the COLREGs that I know.Whatever type of fishing you do, you are "engaged in fishing"

Also, if the fishing vessel has no gear in the water, she may still be engaged in fishing.