Do USCG safety regs apply to foreign flagged vessels

[gpeacock]

Hi all
A friend of mine was just boarded in SF bay by the USCG. They have been issued a warning because they do not have USCG approved lifejackets, sounding device or fire extinguishers. They are all approved in Canada which is the flag of their vessel.
Ive read all 25 pages of the posts here: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ge-112747.html
There was lots of talk but nobody produced anything official.
Does any one have any official documentation stating that foreign flagged vessels in US ports temporarily (they have a 12 month cruising licence) do not have to follow USCG rules with respect to safety equipment.
I need some CFR part # they can quote if they get boarded again

Thanks
Gary

[MarkSF]

Set of 4 "runabout" lifejackets and a couple of fire extinguishers : $100 at West Marine.

[DeepFrz]

Set of 4 "runabout" lifejackets and a couple of fire extinguishers : $100 at West Marine.

So what? Not very helpful Mark

[gpeacock]

Forgot to mention Visual signal devices as well (flares). All are approved in Canada and Canada has stricter requirements for signal devices. None have the USCG stamp of approval.
If they really wanted to get into it their electrical system is not ABYC approved (only CE) and they don't have those bloody garbage placards posted anywhere. Where does it stop?
We are talking about an over prepared couple on a very well found vessel that just cruised offshore from the Northwest. Their boat is safe. They shouldn't need to spend anymore money just because it doesn't have the USCG seal of approval.

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

So what? Not very helpful Mark

My answer was perfectly helpful. I am suggesting that the path of least resistance is to buy the items on the "warning" list, with USCG approval. I even told you where, and how much.

[sailorchic34]

Here you go:

http://www.c2csanfrancisco.com/wp-co...-01.Yachts.pdf

Gist is for canadian vessels, Canadian law applies per g. and 4.c.4. But the coasties in Sf Bay are a bit aggressive in their safety checks.

[boom23]

It is to your friend's, and his passengers', benefit to comply with the USCG requirements. This is a safety thing that it is not worth arguing about. MarkSF gave you everything your friend needs to know.

I have way more than the USCG requires. But, that's me...

[s/v Jedi]

The coasties there should tone down and learn what they are supposed to know. They can only inspect foreign flagged vessels when they know the rules for that particular country.

Also keep in mind that the federal cruising permit is a waiver for anything that a state would like to impose on boats, so no charges, taxes or fees of any kind are due. I write that because I read about the state agencies wanting to get into your wallet.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by boom23

It is to your friend's, and his passengers', benefit to comply with the USCG requirements. This is a safety thing that it is not worth arguing about. MarkSF gave you everything your friend needs to know. I have way more than the USCG requires. But, that's just me...

BS. Many countries have regulations that go beyond those of the USA. You would argue to get less safe gear instead just because some ignorant coastie wants that?

[gpeacock]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Here you go:

http://www.c2csanfrancisco.com/wp-co...-01.Yachts.pdf

Gist is for canadian vessels, Canadian law applies per g. and 4.c.4. But the coasties in Sf Bay are a bit aggressive in their safety checks.

Perfect!
That's exactly what I was looking for. Now they can decide if they want to pull that doc out and train the big guys (and gals) with guns.

[gpeacock]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The coasties there should tone down and learn what they are supposed to know. They can only inspect foreign flagged vessels when they know the rules for that particular country.

Also keep in mind that the federal cruising permit is a waiver for anything that a state would like to impose on boats, so no charges, taxes or fees of any kind are due. I write that because I read about the state agencies wanting to get into your wallet.

Any official policy doc for that statement? California has been known to be especially strict on the Use tax after 90 days.

[tamicatana]

USCG Boating Safety Page

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by gpeacock

Any official policy doc for that statement? California has been known to be especially strict on the Use tax after 90 days.

The print is on the cruising permit itself. Don't fall for their scams, federal law supersedes their silly wish to get your money. It is by authority of the president that they must give you free passage for the duration of the permit.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The coasties there should tone down and learn what they are supposed to know. They can only inspect foreign flagged vessels when they know the rules for that particular country.

They can inspect:

- any US flagged vessel, anywhere.
- any vessel in US waters except for warships or government vessels.
- any vessel believed to be heading towards US waters.

Jurisdiction - Chapter 3

The U.S. Coast Guard is authorized to enforce, or assist in the enforcement of, all U.S. Federal laws applicable on, over, and under the high seas and waters subject to the jurisdiction of the United States...

...it also extends to those waters where the United States, pursuant to an agreement with a foreign government, has been authorized to take law enforcement action involving United States or foreign vessels. Such waters could, and in actual practice do, include foreign territorial waters.

...the Coast Guard may go aboard any United States vessel at any time, anywhere to conduct a documentation and safety inspection

...a vessel in the territorial waters of a state other than its flag state is ordinarily subject to the concurrent jurisdiction of the coastal state and the flag state; the nature and extent of the coastal state’s jurisdiction vary with the particular circumstances. Warships and other government vessels entitled to sovereign immunity are not subject to this concurrent jurisdiction.

So yes, to answer the thread starter's question, you are subject to USCG rules. It varies nation to nation based on rules in the UN, unilateral treaties, and bilateral arrangements.

[gpeacock]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

They can inspect:

- any US flagged vessel, anywhere.
- any vessel in US waters except for warships or government vessels.
- any vessel believed to be heading towards US waters.

Jurisdiction - Chapter 3



So yes, to answer the thread starter's question, you are subject to USCG rules. It varies nation to nation based on rules in the UN, unilateral treaties, and bilateral arrangements.

To add to that (so nobody reading this later is confused). It seems (according to the policy doc posted by sailorchic) that Canada has signed a reciprocal agreement with the US that allows for Canadian CG certified vessels to operate in US waters without having to comply with USCG carriage requirements (lifejackets, signaling devices and fire extinguishers etc). Seems like boats from other countries are out of luck!
Gary