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01-12-2024, 09:29
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 2,148
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu
local water cops can be pretty frustrating actually.
I got a ticket in my dinghy before. it was during covid.
I had sent my paperwork to the state for registration, they were basically closed for months. There was no paperwork getting done. So I was on the waiting list to get my registration back.
I was in some state that I’m not going to mention.
I had this moment where my old Outboard was about to die. It would only run wide open. I was pretty close to the town dock. The outboard started sputtering and dying, so I gave it some throttle to get it going. That caught the attention of the water cops.
They came over and went to give me some fines.
I got the fine for unregistered dinghy and there was no listening to the fact that I couldn’t get the registration because it was Covid.
then, I got a ticket for not having a whistle. I had two cell phones, a VHF, and a handheld GPS in the dinghy. Believe it or not. Proper lifejackets. Everything you would ever need to survive in a dinghy. Wasn’t good enough. Had to have a little whistle to blow. Mind-boggling.
Then I proceeded on my way, and just like someone was mentioning above about Rhode Island, it was appear in court only. I was really far away. I had to hire a lawyer to go to court for me. It was ridiculous.
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To avoid further unnecessary conflict with local law enforcement you might want to review the US Coast Guard REQUIRED equipment. It's a federal requirement. Almost every state has incorporated the USCG rules into their own code by reference, so can give you a state ticket for a violation of the rule. You, and everybody else, are required to have an "efficient sound producing device" on any boat less than 65 feet LOA. You think it is a dumb rule, but that really doesn't count for much.
It's kind of a quick and easy ticket to hand out since so few people comply. A cheap whistle hung on the outboard is all that's needed.
Recently added to the rules for small boats is the requirement to have and USE the safety cutoff switch. I do not know how many states have added this to their own rules, but you can be sure it's coming quickly to a state near you if not there yet. No matter if you think it is a good idea or not, it is the law...
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01-12-2024, 09:35
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: 50ft Custom Fast Catamaran
Posts: 12,231
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie
To avoid further unnecessary conflict with local law enforcement you might want to review the US Coast Guard REQUIRED equipment. It's a federal requirement. Almost every state has incorporated the USCG rules into their own code by reference, so can give you a state ticket for a violation of the rule. You, and everybody else, are required to have an "efficient sound producing device" on any boat less than 65 feet LOA. You think it is a dumb rule, but that really doesn't count for much.
It's kind of a quick and easy ticket to hand out since so few people comply. A cheap whistle hung on the outboard is all that's needed.
Recently added to the rules for small boats is the requirement to have and USE the safety cutoff switch. I do not know how many states have added this to their own rules, but you can be sure it's coming quickly to a state near you if not there yet. No matter if you think it is a good idea or not, it is the law...
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i’m familiar with the regs. who is to say what is an efficient sound producing device anyway? My phone can make a squeal nearly as loud as a cheap plaid “marine” whistle and I had two of them.
it’s absolutely pathetic for a dinghy to have these laws applied to them. these are regs for boats, not 9ft long rafts. anyone who thinks it’s a good idea to load up a dinghy with all this garbage is just as pathetic. every year, the amount of crap in my dinghy grows and grows thanks to inane laws and regulations
who is stupid enough to run their dinghy without the safety landyard anyway? That’s a ridiculous example
I also had my 100 ton master with me. Don’t really need to read up. Thank you anyway though.
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01-12-2024, 09:39
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 2,148
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyDiver
If your throat is in working order or you can whistle loud? Besides that in most juristictions the smallest of vessels don't need every bit of equipment mentioned in the rules.
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Read the rules... EVERY vessel less that 65 feet needs an "efficient sound producing device." Your mouth doesn't count. It's the law, no matter what you or I think of the idea. There is no exception for the "smallest of vessels." This is a Federal Rule. Most states add the Federal Rules to their own laws so they can enforce them.
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01-12-2024, 09:58
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arctic Ocean
Boat: Under construction 35' ketch (and +3 smaller)
Posts: 3,003
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie
Read the rules... EVERY vessel less that 65 feet needs an "efficient sound producing device." Your mouth doesn't count. It's the law, no matter what you or I think of the idea. There is no exception for the "smallest of vessels." This is a Federal Rule. Most states add the Federal Rules to their own laws so they can enforce them.
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Colregs:
(b) A vessel of less than 12 metres in length shall not be obliged to carry the sound
signalling appliances prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule but if she does not, she
shall be provided with some other means of making an efficient sound signal.
Dunno US inland rules and what else and how much they differ but Colregs applies to all foreign vessels as long as (quote Colregs again):
(a) These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters
connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels.
(b) Nothing in these Rules shall interfere with the operation of special rules made by
an appropriate authority for roadsteads, harbours, rivers, lakes or inland waterways
connected with the high seas and navigable by seagoing vessels. Such special rules
shall conform as closely as possible to these Rules
So back at you, Read the Rules..
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01-12-2024, 09:59
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 2,148
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu
I also had my 100 ton master with me. Don’t really need to read up. Thank you anyway though.
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There is no legal requirement to read up, if you follow the rules, even the stupid ones, or have fun arguing in court that the rules don't apply to you because they are stupid. I would argue that digging in your pocket, pulling out your phone, finding and starting the correct app, all to make a sound signal could, arguabley, be described as "inefficient", but what do I know? That was not on my 100 ton master test.
My all time favorite stupid boat rule was in California where it was illegal to drive an outboard while sitting on the gunwale of the boat. A rule of very questionable need--but not quite totally stupid--until some bright boy with a badge decided it applied to someone driving an inflatable dinghy.
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01-12-2024, 10:12
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2020
Location: SoCal
Boat: 35' Alden Design Cutter
Posts: 682
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu
i’m familiar with the regs. who is to say what is an efficient sound producing device anyway? My phone can make a squeal nearly as loud as a cheap plaid “marine” whistle and I had two of them.
it’s absolutely pathetic for a dinghy to have these laws applied to them. these are regs for boats, not 9ft long rafts. anyone who thinks it’s a good idea to load up a dinghy with all this garbage is just as pathetic. every year, the amount of crap in my dinghy grows and grows thanks to inane laws and regulations
I also had my 100 ton master with me. Don’t really need to read up. Thank you anyway though.
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Lol... is that the hill you die on?
You don't need a 3 dollar whistle to take up all of your dinghy space because you have 2 phones?
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01-12-2024, 10:40
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#22
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Tartan 3800
Posts: 5,419
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb
So be it - gotta have nav lights. But, the police also issued them a warning about the dinghy not being registered.
Denmark does not require dinghy registration. So this regulation is something Danish boats are simply unable to meet.
Since the boat is Danish - I would suspect that the Florida police can't enforce this. Foreign ships/boats are subject to their home country regulations as regards registration etc.
Does anyone know what the international regulations are?
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Florida statutes, Chapter 328.03(2)j, contains an exemption from titling and registration for foreign vessels that are in the state of Florida for less than 90 consecutive days.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2023/328.03
Other states have similar provisions because they must comply with uniform registration rules set by the USCG.
__________________
The best part of an adventure is the people you meet.
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01-12-2024, 10:50
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#23
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Jan 2019
Boat: Beneteau 432, C&C Landfall 42, Roberts Offshore 38
Posts: 7,162
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
I have been busted by Fla LE for not having running lights whilst going out to my anchored boat. Mind you, this is for a powered dink. I don't believe an oar propelled dink has any light requirements, but it's extremely rare to see anyone rowing a dink.
Running lights require wiring, battery, etc, which is not very practical on a dink, but I was able to purchase a flashlight with a red/green lens, which I could hold in my hand, pointing forward. A white stern light was apparently not required.
Alternately, I've been told, that an all around white light, will also suffice, but not sure how this would be implemented on a dink.
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01-12-2024, 11:20
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#24
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Tartan 3800
Posts: 5,419
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu
who is to say what is an efficient sound producing device anyway? My phone can make a squeal nearly as loud as a cheap plaid “marine” whistle and I had two of them.
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In the United States we are a nation of laws. Under the law, whether a particular object is an "efficient sound producing device" is a question of fact. Questions of fact are resolved by the "finder of fact" for any particular case -- either an administrative law judge, trial judge, or jury.
I would suggest that if a "cheap plaid marine whistle" is not any louder than your phone that it is probably not an "efficient sound producing device." I would suggest that you obtain a Storm Safety Whistle. You should be able to find one for under $10.
Quote:
it’s absolutely pathetic for a dinghy to have these laws applied to them. these are regs for boats, not 9ft long rafts. anyone who thinks it’s a good idea to load up a dinghy with all this garbage is just as pathetic. every year, the amount of crap in my dinghy grows and grows thanks to inane laws and regulations
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Let's review the requirements for dinghies under 16' long:
- PFD for each person aboard.
- Efficient sound-producing device
- Nighttime distress signalling device (only when operating between sunset and sunrise)
- Navigation lights (only when operating between sunset and sunrise)
- Registration materials (decals, numbers, etc.) as required by the state where the boat is registered
- Operator's license, for some states, though there are many exemptions to this.
- Fire extinguisher (only for dinghies with fuel stored in an enclosed compartment)
None of this is new and none of it is particularly burdensome.
Quote:
I also had my 100 ton master with me. Don’t really need to read up. Thank you anyway though.
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Your posts in this thread suggest that you may have missed a question or two.
__________________
The best part of an adventure is the people you meet.
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01-12-2024, 11:25
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 7,951
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Registration / titling / documentation / licensing / operation requirements are jurisdictional specific they are NOT international in nature or scope.
The United States are 50 States and thus 50 jurisdictions of their waterways, somewhat similar to say, the EU in that regard.
As one travels across boundaries one needs to learn the requirements associated with the privilege of use and occupancy of each of the waters and land.
It is a simple matter to perform an internet search of the requirements of each jurisdiction.
Typically, there is a limited period of time for transit as to not requiring engagement of the jurisdictional requirements, including taxation [sales / use, real property taxation on the vessels, excise tax, etc.
The United States ARE, not the United States IS.
50 States = 50 sets of laws and regulations, plus the Federal Code of Regulations is an overlay in addition to each of the States.
One may need to register anew with another State as one progresses along your journey along the US coastline. State Registration is not once and done if the State of Principal Use changes during the year.
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01-12-2024, 11:26
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#26
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Tartan 3800
Posts: 5,419
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Quote:
Originally Posted by carstenb
Some friends of mine are sailing in the US. They were stopped by the Florida police when in their dinghy. Got a fine for missing nav lights.
So be it - gotta have nav lights.
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Yes. Navigation lights are an operating requirement, not an equipment requirement. To operate in U.S. waters at night, you must display the applicable lights, even though requirements in international waters are less stringent.
I use and recommend the Navisafe battery powered LED lights. They are reliable, practical, easy to install, and can be removed from their base to store them away from weather and thieves. Adhesive mounting kits are available for PVC tubes or you can attach a mounting base to a metal or fiberglass component using screws or bolts.
__________________
The best part of an adventure is the people you meet.
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01-12-2024, 11:33
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,978
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicHughV
I have been busted by Fla LE for not having running lights whilst going out to my anchored boat. Mind you, this is for a powered dink. I don't believe an oar propelled dink has any light requirements, but it's extremely rare to see anyone rowing a dink.
Running lights require wiring, battery, etc, which is not very practical on a dink, but I was able to purchase a flashlight with a red/green lens, which I could hold in my hand, pointing forward. A white stern light was apparently not required.
Alternately, I've been told, that an all around white light, will also suffice, but not sure how this would be implemented on a dink.
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We've got a pair of battery powered nav lights for the dinghy. They run on AA batteries (which seem to last forever). One light mounts to the bow with a red/green lens, the other sits on a pole at the stern as an all around white.
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01-12-2024, 11:57
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arctic Ocean
Boat: Under construction 35' ketch (and +3 smaller)
Posts: 3,003
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron E
Lol... is that the hill you die on?
You don't need a 3 dollar whistle to take up all of your dinghy space because you have 2 phones?
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The whistle requirement for dinghy is fulfilled with PFD having a whistle..
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01-12-2024, 12:40
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 7,461
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicHughV
I have been busted by Fla LE for not having running lights whilst going out to my anchored boat. Mind you, this is for a powered dink. I don't believe an oar propelled dink has any light requirements, but it's extremely rare to see anyone rowing a dink.
Running lights require wiring, battery, etc, which is not very practical on a dink, but I was able to purchase a flashlight with a red/green lens, which I could hold in my hand, pointing forward. A white stern light was apparently not required.
Alternately, I've been told, that an all around white light, will also suffice, but not sure how this would be implemented on a dink.
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All around white light is fine if your vessel is less than 7 meters and not moving over 7kts. Sidelights are recommended but not mandatory.
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01-12-2024, 13:00
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#30
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,938
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Re: Dinghy Registration Required?
Rule 1 of the colregs makes it perfectly clear that local or state authorities can impose “Special rules” that depart from the chiseled in stone Colregs.
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