Dangerous dredging maneuvers in inlet -- what should I have done differently?

[John_Trusty]

I'm missing your point, Montanan. Are you saying that the OP LTaylor was wrong somehow for being in the channel? Since the sides of that channel are rock, he also was in the situation of not being able to maneuver. It also sounded like he was holding course and speed, and the tug/barge made a sudden turn. You also quoted the overtaking section (from i and ii), but it sounded like it was opposing directions.

Everyone keeps saying that this sailboat (actually motoring, if I have that right) had no rights to come into Lake Worth Inlet when a commercial vessel that may have been RAM was there. You sure are fast to give up your rights to navigate. I have as much right to that limited stretch of water if I behave correctly and give proper sound / daymarks.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

Everyone keeps saying that this sailboat (actually motoring, if I have that right) had no rights to come into Lake Worth Inlet when a commercial vessel that may have been RAM was there.

Not everyone! And I suspect Montanan may have been just trying to start something...

Now, I don't know what signals may have been displayed, or the precise positions of everyone, but I suspect the tug was not RAM, that it was more likely crossing the channel rather than following it, and thus also would have been give-way in the crossing. This tallies up a decent set of sins (9d, 9a, and 14 or 15) compared to the other vessel (25e, 34d)

[Shrew]

I honestly don't see an unreliable engine as a decent excuse here. If you really feel that your vessel or engine is so untrustworthy as to be a risk to yourself and others (Yes, going dead and sideways in the middle of a narrow channel with limited ability for anyone to navigate is a hazzard to EVERYONE), then that should really be your first order of business.

Yes, engine's die unexpectedly (stuff happens), but the idea that one will make themselves less maneuverable either because they don't trust their engine or 'one time 10 years things got pear-shaped and now I'm nervous' is not really an excuse.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Shrew

I honestly don't see an unreliable engine as a decent excuse here. If you really feel that your vessel or engine is so untrustworthy as to be a risk to yourself and others (Yes, going dead and sideways in the middle of a narrow channel with limited ability for anyone to navigate is a hazzard to EVERYONE), then that should really be your first order of business.

Yes, engine's die unexpectedly (stuff happens), but the idea that one will make themselves less maneuverable either because they don't trust their engine or 'one time 10 years things got pear-shaped and now I'm nervous' is not really an excuse.

Agreed. A lot of sailors seem to have a strong dis-trust in engines, often for no good reason. A well maintained engine should be very reliable, particularly in terms of not just suddenly stopping with no prior warning that a problem is developing.

[Cpt Mark]

I used to be Captain on tugs/barges dredging narrow channels and marinas. The tugs/barges used in those ops are flat bottomed, no keel, designed for as shallow of a draft as possible and when they are empty, act like very huge sails. Maneuvering is tricky because of all of this and sometimes with tides, currents and wind can get unpredictable and quite sporty. We had pleasure boats wanting us to get out of their way periodically. Nope. We were working, on the expensive clock and a job to do. In this case, the tug/barge combination has all the rights of way. Look on the barges and you will see permanently mounted day shapes etc.

All that said, the best we can do for boaters is to hold our course when possible. Keep in mind tho that we need a lot more room and draft than the average boater.

Re: radios. We monitored 13 and 16. During critical times which this tug operator was in, we don't have time to get on the radio. Our focus is on the maneuver and getting the barge where it needs to be which may not be obvious to the boater as was the case here. We can't always go in a predictable straight line to get from point A to point B. And to make that happen often requires several move ops before .

Hope this helps.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Look on the barges and you will see permanently mounted day shapes etc.

What day shape is permanently mounted on barges?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

What day shape is permanently mounted on barges?

Select one.

[Montanan]

Vessel being towed - Black Diamond.

Vessel towing - Black Diamond.

Must be five carats or larger.

[requiem]

Hmm... I think this is an example of why lawyers often want their clients to stop talking....

[Cpt Mark]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

What day shape is permanently mounted on barges?

Apologies. I was hurrying earlier. Should have said on the tugboat not barge. As far as which one(s) that depends on length of tow, barge, vessel. You may see a line of 3 shapes vertically. The center one tells you what the restrictions are and the two outside ones tell you which side to pass them on.

Barges will have lights port/stbd

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Vessel being towed - Black Diamond.

Vessel towing - Black Diamond.

Must be five carats or larger.

Diamond is for a tow longer than 200m - don't usually get that towing alongside

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Apologies. I was hurrying earlier. Should have said on the tugboat not barge. As far as which one(s) that depends on length of tow, barge, vessel. You may see a line of 3 shapes vertically. The center one tells you what the restrictions are and the two outside ones tell you which side to pass them on.

Barges will have lights port/stbd

I could see the 2 balls/2 diamond shapes being permanently fixed to a dredger, but the diamond depends on length and no vessel is always RAM, so can't see them being permanently-fixed.

[Jim Cate]

^^^^
Trawlers are not always actively fishing and dive boats don't always have divers down, but one often sees permanent day shapes displayed on such vessels... a pet peeve of mine!

Jim

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

^^^^
Trawlers are not always actively fishing and dive boats don't always have divers down, but one often sees permanent day shapes displayed on such vessels... a pet peeve of mine!

Jim

You have a point Jim. Also a pet peeve of mine, but when those vessels are doing their work, they're actually doing what is indicated by the shapes. The assertion was that tugs have these permanent shapes, but a diamond says a very specific thing, and towing alongside does not require it, and very few tows are RAM, so it is highly unlikely any tug would have those shape permanently fixed. One could imagine dredgers possibly having the RAM shapes fixed, again given the standard nature of their employment. That said, I've passed a lot of dredgers in my day, and never seen them with welded-on RAM shapes.

[Jim Cate]

^^^^

Oh, I agree that at least around here tugs don't have such appendages. Their work is so varied that it would be really inappropriate, and I suspect that tug masters are a bit more professional in outlook than many trawlermen and dive masters.

Jim