Colreg question

[longjonsilver]

i've wondered this for years and it happened last nite, i've read this forum looking and have not found the answer, so if it is here, and it probably is, go gently on me. So i am gonna ask it here, and i admit its probably a dumb question, but here goes:

We were hard on the wind on a port tack. Another boat was running on starboard. A collision was soon to happen if one or the other didn't take action. Who was the stand on and who was the give way boat?

jon

[Training Wheels]

Wow, really? Port tack gives way to starboard. That’s like the most fundamental rule of sailing. Not to be glib, but suggest you spend some time read the rules of the road.

[StuM]

Seriously? Don't you have a copy of COLREGS?



Get the bi-lingual Canadian version here:
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/C.R.C.,_c._1416.pdf


or read them online here:
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/....html#h-512872

Rule 12

(a) When two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows:
(i) when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other;

[Skins]

The other boat is the stand on vessel and you must keep clear.

If you tack onto starboard then you become the stand on vessel as the other boat is windward but that's not something you would do unless racing.

How close did you get? and what was the outcome?

[Chotu]

Maybe this is a post to test if we can all agree on at least something.

[Skins]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Maybe this is a post to test if we can all agree on at least something.

I don't think so

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Skins

If you tack onto starboard then you become the stand on vessel as the other boat is windward but that's not something you would do unless racing.

Or if you're about to sail into the shore, or shallows, or a point, or something like that.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Maybe this is a post to test if we can all agree on at least something.

I came here for an argument

[markpierce]

Hopefully, Longjon is jerking our chains. God help us if he boats ignorant.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by longjonsilver

i've wondered this for years and it happened last nite, i've read this forum looking and have not found the answer, so if it is here, and it probably is, go gently on me. So i am gonna ask it here, and i admit its probably a dumb question, but here goes:

We were hard on the wind on a port tack. Another boat was running on starboard. A collision was soon to happen if one or the other didn't take action. Who was the stand on and who was the give way boat?

jon

Yeah, that does confuse a lot of people, Jon - because the other boat was going downwind.

It's almost like there should be a subcategory for boats travelling to windward and another sub for boats running before the wind.... (Although, imagine the confusion there would be then!)

But like the guys said, first principles - starboard over port - no matter what your angle to the wind.

The other vessel was stand on. You were required to alter.

Fair winds!
LittleWing77

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Factor

I came here for an argument

No you didn't.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

It's almost like there should be a subcategory for boats travelling to windward and another sub for boats running before the wind.... (Although, imagine the confusion there would be then!)

There is, on lakes in the city of Minneapolis.


They presume to override the Inland Rules with city ordinance that states that boats running before the wind must keep out of the way of boats hard on the wind, starboard tack be damned.


https://library.municode.com/mn/minn...SA_.4-55RI-WRU


You can't make this stuff up.


State law has conflicting rules that match neither the Minneapolis ordinance nor the Inland Rules. Who wins? You decide.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Factor

I came here for an argument

On that note, I've dug up a copy of the minutes from the, checks date, err... let's just call it the '89 international marine conference, and it seems there's general agreement about Article 14:

Article 14. When two sailing ships are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows, namely:
(a.) A ship which is running free shall keep out of the way of a ship which is close-hauled.
(b.) A ship which is close-hauled on the port tack shall keep out of the way of a ship which is close-hauled on the starboard tack.
(c.) When both are running free, with the wind on different sides, the ship which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other.
(d.) When both are running free, with the wind on the same side, the ship which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the ship which is to leeward.
(e.) A ship which has the wind aft shall keep out of the way of the other ship.

(But I suspect this is the reason for the Minneapolis situation.)

[longjonsilver]

We obviously have some great teachers on this forum. Born knowing it all, belittling anyone who dares ask a question. That is the best way to impart your voluminous knowledge to the rest of the world. i will make a note that we will have to put that technique into our pediological textbooks, here in the university.

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Not to be glib, but suggest you spend some time read the rules of the road.

OK people beat on me all you want, i know that you are superior, n thats why i asked you. If you want people to remain ignorant, then beat on them mercilessly n then they will never ask again. Lesson learned. Stay away from this forum.

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Yeah, that does confuse a lot of people, Jon - because the other boat was going downwind.

But like the guys said, first principles - starboard over port - no matter what your angle to the wind.

The other vessel was stand on. You were required to alter.

Thank you. Littlewing. You answered the question without the need to demonstrate your superiority in all things nautical, and belittle everyone that is trying to learn. Well done, mate.

Originally Posted by StuM

Seriously? Don't you have a copy of COLREGS?

And yes, i have a copy of the Colregs, but which of those two rules takes precedence has always been confusing to me. So OK beat on me some more... Cuz, you are so obviously superior to me that i can't even reach your shoelaces, as you were born knowing the Colregs

Originally Posted by Skins

The other boat is the stand on vessel and you must keep clear.

If you tack onto starboard then you become the stand on vessel as the other boat is windward but that's not something you would do unless racing.

How close did you get? and what was the outcome?

We came within several meters. i was operating the mainsheet and traveler. Ray, as the owner of the C&C was the skipper and helmsman. He adjusted course at the last second. This club is very friendly. There has not been a protest for as long as anyone can remember.

jon

[Pete7]

Sorry you feel this way but I think you will agree the IRPCS are rather important and sadly have been written from experience of when things went wrong, to avoid a repeat.

The forum members have given you the advice you asked for, freely in their own time and some have gone one step further, amplifying the regulation. What you do with this advice of course is completely up to you.

I appreciate that the regulations can appear complicated at times, hence need studying, but not all in one go. As a teacher once said to me, it's easier to eat a biscuit in small bites than all in one go. As a teacher I am sure you will be familiar with this. There are a number of little pocket books available, keep one in your desk and read one regulation a day over lunch. The risky time is in the Spring when there has been a winter layoff and everyone is rusty, a quick brush up is always time well spent.

This is the one I use:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seamans-Gui...s%2C345&sr=8-1

Equally a set of "flash cards" in the cockpit are always useful, if they are read.

I will draw your attention to this quote accredited to Field Marshall Erwin Rommel:

"The British write some of the best doctrine in the world; it is fortunate their officers do not read it"

The same could be said for all IRPCS books sat on shelves in thousands of yachts world wide.

Pete

Oh and as a footnote, I have some bad news for you after reading your signature line. It's not looking good for the little green men from outer space. Mind you they must be working with IRPC in Space in 3 dimensions if not 4


https://www.9news.com.au/national/sp...1-9445059a445a