COLREG 35

[hallejj]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Having just sailed from Roche Harbor to Port Angeles (San Juan Islands) day before yesterday in heavy fog - I can recount the following:

The fog (especially going through Mosquito Pass) limited visibility to about 25 meters (checked with radar against a buoy). Several power boats zipped right along through that fog at 8-10 knots (we were making 2-2.5 knots)

We met a number of vessels (trawlers) coming against us - but they didn't use their fog horns.

Several boats were drifting (fishing) and didn't sue their fog horns.

We have an old horn that you blow (no cans here - you can find out if your lungs work). We did blow that every couple of minutes as we snaked our way down Mosquito Pass. Only one boat answered - he used a pot and spoon (worked just fine)


we had near collisions with a couple of the others - the pass is narrow (we have a 7 foot keel) These clowns not only couldn't be bothered to use their fog horn, they indiscriminately zipped around coming right in front of us - they simply didn't care

Wow! The prospect of Mosquito Pass in 25 meters visibility would, I am pretty sure, convince me that I needed another cup (or three) of coffee. (For those not familiar, the charter company where I learned to sail ten years ago used to prohibit the transit period and now allows it but marks it on the charts as an extreme caution area. The channel is VERY narrow in places and has a lot of bends.) Your experience though mirrors mine. As far as I can tell, no one uses sound signals in an anchorage and most don't use them enroute as a matter of general practice. If common sense is the standard, then there is a balancing test to be made between the benefit of alerting other boaters and the problem with disturbing the pristine natural environment which is why most of us are there in the first place. The ferries use the common sense rule a lot. For example, they sound a blast when leaving port at noon but not a 6 a.m. The problem with the fact that the rule fails to take common sense into account is that, in hindsight after a problem, it can have unfair consequences. Ok, life isn't fair. I get that.

[CaptRodriguez]

Originally Posted by hallejj

Makes sense given the rule but it is definitely not the common practice in the Pacific Northwest. A month or so ago, we went through Thatcher Pass eastbound in the fog with a ferry going westbound. In addition to us and the ferry, there were at least two other boats within half a mile of us. Thatcher is a few hundred yards wide and the ferry generally takes its half out of the middle. The ferry was the least of my concerns as both it and we have AIS. In any case, not a single horn blast was heard and that is typical in my experience. Was the ferry captain putting his ticket at risk?

Yes, the ferry captain was putting their credential at risk. The ColRegs are not suggestions. I live in Anacortes and operate several boats for TowBoat US. As a USCG certified instructor, and WA State Bar Assoc instructor for MCLE credits on maritime law, I can tell you if you have an incident you will certainly find that a violation of the rules will be met with fines and more if you are licensed.

Additionally the ColRegs are for all mariners, not just those that are licensed.

All local waters (Salish Sea) are governed by International Rules and there are no Special Anchorages in the international rules, not in Echo Bay, Roche Harbor et.al.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Who needs a horn. A hailer speaker connected to a decent radio will sound fog signals too.

For some bizarre reason I've kept this as an open tab on my computer. Now I know why...


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post2565698

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by CaptRodriguez

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All local waters (Salish Sea) are governed by International Rules and there are no Special Anchorages in the international rules, not in Echo Bay, Roche Harbor et.al.

Got this from sbo.com the other day, I did NOT write this. I also have NOT looked to see if there is one in "local waters" in the US PNW.


Just stumbled on the official listing of all Special Anchorages in the US and it's Territories.

This is not a discussion of whether you need an anchor light when on a mooring, just info on where the Special Anchorages, where you don't need an anchor light when less than 65 feet according to COLREGs.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...ml#seqnum110.4

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Having just sailed from Roche Harbor to Port Angeles (San Juan Islands) day before yesterday in heavy fog - I can recount the following:

The fog (especially going through Mosquito Pass) limited visibility to about 25 meters (checked with radar against a buoy). Several power boats zipped right along through that fog at 8-10 knots (we were making 2-2.5 knots)

We met a number of vessels (trawlers) coming against us - but they didn't use their fog horns.

Several boats were drifting (fishing) and didn't sue their fog horns.

We have an old horn that you blow (no cans here - you can find out if your lungs work). We did blow that every couple of minutes as we snaked our way down Mosquito Pass. Only one boat answered - he used a pot and spoon (worked just fine)


we had near collisions with a couple of the others - the pass is narrow (we have a 7 foot keel) These clowns not only couldn't be bothered to use their fog horn, they indiscriminately zipped around coming right in front of us - they simply didn't care

Congratulations to you for a safe and successful transit. Mosquito Pass is a "favorite" of mine from April 2019 when I was "exposed" to it by a friend I cruised out of Roche Harbor with in his Catalina 36. We were heading for Barlow Bay at the southern end of Lopez Island. While it was clear that day, it was breezy from the south and once we got out into Haro Strait it was like riding a bucking bronco. [Photo is out in Haro, right when the chief of the boat gave the Dive, Dive klaxon signal!!!] We eventually turned back after 45 minutes of being, basically, stupid. We anchored in Westcott Bay because the wind was from the south making Garrison Bay untenable. My friend came over in his dinghy and showed me the forecast on his tablet: 40 knots from the west starting in less than an hour, which would have made Westcott Bay untenable, but Garrison OK. He raced back to his boat as I hand hauled my anchor with urgency. Just as I catted my gear and started to move, the wind began to shriek. He had a new to him windlass, with the breaker down below. Because of the wind building so immediately, he had difficulty getting his anchor up and popped the breaker, under his V berth!, and began dragging because his hook wasn't off the bottom yet. He kept sliding deeper into the bay, but finally reset the breaker and managed to somehow get his bow around enough to get his hook up, and we hightailed it back to Roche. It blew hard all night. And that's my Mosquito Pass story. No powerboats or fisherman out in that carp!



The visibility here has been atrocious for the past week. We live on Vancouver Island overlooking Saltspring Island 3 km to the east, and it only reappeared yesterday. Heavy duty smoke & fog, oh my!


Glad you're safe, wish we could get together. Safe journey(s).

[Cynara]

If in anchorage, like at catalina island, as far as I know it doesn't apply. If anchored in a place not usually an anchorage then yes

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Cynara

If in anchorage, like at catalina island, as far as I know it doesn't apply. If anchored in a place not usually an anchorage then yes

So sorry, the COLREGS are very specific that fog signals are required at anchor if visibility is restricted with no exception for how common or not it is to anchor in a specific area.
That said, there will only be an issue if you are involved in a collision or if there is an overzealous enforcement officer. If you are involved in a collision while anchored and have not been making the required sounds, then any court involved will assign you some portion of blame for the collision, probably somewhere in the 5% neighborhood. If it's just the insurance companies then they will work it out similar to what the courts would have decided but without actually having to go to court. It may be that exemptions for US Special Anchorages apply to sound signals as well as anchor lights, but only in those very specific locations.

I believe that technically you should even make the appropriate sounds when tied up in a marina. Nobody enforces that and there would noise complaints by locals that the local jurisdiction might enforce if you did. Conflicting legal requirements by overlapping jurisdictions. If you are in a marina, don't make the sounds. If somebody hits you the insurance companies will work it out.

[JB0101]

I found it easy to remember the reduced visibility sound requirements by thinking of them in relation to a vessel's vulnerability (That captain's ability to take action to avoid collision). The more vulnerable the vessel is, the more noise it is required to make. Consider the vessels are divided into two major groups. Underway and Anchored/Aground. All signals for underway vessels are to be sounded at intervals not to exceed 2 min and the equipment to be utilized is a whistle (horn). The least vulnerable vessel is a power vessel under way and sounds one prolonged blast. A power driven vessel not making way is a little more vulnerable so sounds two prolonged blasts. Then comes the big group of six - Sailing, Fishing, NUC, RAM, Towing, and Constrained (International only) who all sound one prolonged and two short. Because the Captain of the towed vessel has zero ability to avoid collision he makes the most noise of the underway vessels and sounds one long and three short blasts immediately following the towing vessel's sound signal. Then there is the pilot boat who adds four short blasts following their one or two long as their status dictates. Again all signals for underway vessels are not to exceed two minutes.
Anchored and Aground vessels are more vulnerable than underway vessels, so their intervals are shortened not to exceed one minute. Their equipment is the bell for under 100M and bell and gong for over 100M which are sounded for 5 seconds each. Vessels aground are the most vulnerable of all vessels and add three distinct strokes of the bell before and after their bell/gong. There are three exceptions to anchored/aground equipment. A pilot vessel may add the four short whistle blasts following their bell. An anchored/aground vessel may warn an approaching vessel by sounding a short-long-short. A RAM vessel at anchor sounds the Prolonged and 2 short whistle blasts and does not sound the bell/gong signals. I am not saying this is how the convention came about the rules, I have just found this an easier way for crew to logically think through the rules.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Congratulations to you for a safe and successful transit. Mosquito Pass is a "favorite" of mine from April 2019 when I was "exposed" to it by a friend I cruised out of Roche Harbor with in his Catalina 36. We were heading for Barlow Bay at the southern end of Lopez Island. While it was clear that day, it was breezy from the south and once we got out into Haro Strait it was like riding a bucking bronco. [Photo is out in Haro, right when the chief of the boat gave the Dive, Dive klaxon signal!!!] We eventually turned back after 45 minutes of being, basically, stupid. We anchored in Westcott Bay because the wind was from the south making Garrison Bay untenable. My friend came over in his dinghy and showed me the forecast on his tablet: 40 knots from the west starting in less than an hour, which would have made Westcott Bay untenable, but Garrison OK. He raced back to his boat as I hand hauled my anchor with urgency. Just as I catted my gear and started to move, the wind began to shriek. He had a new to him windlass, with the breaker down below. Because of the wind building so immediately, he had difficulty getting his anchor up and popped the breaker, under his V berth!, and began dragging because his hook wasn't off the bottom yet. He kept sliding deeper into the bay, but finally reset the breaker and managed to somehow get his bow around enough to get his hook up, and we hightailed it back to Roche. It blew hard all night. And that's my Mosquito Pass story. No powerboats or fisherman out in that carp!



The visibility here has been atrocious for the past week. We live on Vancouver Island overlooking Saltspring Island 3 km to the east, and it only reappeared yesterday. Heavy duty smoke & fog, oh my!


Glad you're safe, wish we could get together. Safe journey(s).

well I wish I could say we enjoyed the pristine beauty of sailing Mosquito Pass - but it was so foggy we could barely see the front end of the boat (but it is a nice front end of a boat).

Stu - we know lots of people living on the Canadian side that we would love to visit - but Covid has put a stop to this unfortunately.

Perhaps next spring...................

[Montanan]

So instead of sounding loud horns or whistles, could one just play a looping list track of Nickelback songs to alert others of your presence during limited visibility.

Fairly certain that no one in a crowded anchorage would have any difficulty being able to sleep through their favorite Nickelback songs.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by hallejj

Wow! The prospect of Mosquito Pass in 25 meters visibility would, I am pretty sure, convince me that I needed another cup (or three) of coffee. (For those not familiar, the charter company where I learned to sail ten years ago used to prohibit the transit period and now allows it but marks it on the charts as an extreme caution area. The channel is VERY narrow in places and has a lot of bends.) Your experience though mirrors mine. As far as I can tell, no one uses sound signals in an anchorage and most don't use them enroute as a matter of general practice. If common sense is the standard, then there is a balancing test to be made between the benefit of alerting other boaters and the problem with disturbing the pristine natural environment which is why most of us are there in the first place. The ferries use the common sense rule a lot. For example, they sound a blast when leaving port at noon but not a 6 a.m. The problem with the fact that the rule fails to take common sense into account is that, in hindsight after a problem, it can have unfair consequences. Ok, life isn't fair. I get that.

The transit itself was ok although required a bit of attention - the other boaters made it more - how shall I say this - exciting?

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by hallejj

Makes sense given the rule but it is definitely not the common practice in the Pacific Northwest. A month or so ago, we went through Thatcher Pass eastbound in the fog with a ferry going westbound. In addition to us and the ferry, there were at least two other boats within half a mile of us. Thatcher is a few hundred yards wide and the ferry generally takes its half out of the middle. The ferry was the least of my concerns as both it and we have AIS. In any case, not a single horn blast was heard and that is typical in my experience. Was the ferry captain putting his ticket at risk?

Not just his or her certificate, His or her job his or her personal freedom and liberty.
Possibly even all of the above for the OOW as well.

I am very surprised, I live and sail in the area I am well used to hearing fog signals.

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by psk125

The definition of "sailing vessel" at the start of the Colleges states that a "sailing vessel" is under sail. If you are anchored or moored you are not under sail and do not have to make sounds. Motor vessels are defined as being "propelled by machinery". An anchored motor vessel is not being propelled by machinery - it is anchored. Please don't wake up at 04h00 to blow your fog horn when you're anchored.

Which would be why many of us have nice shiny ding a ling.

Which I have to admit I can’t actually be bothered to get up at night and ring.

However if I was woken up by a fog horn blasting near by.

I would reply with my ding a ling