Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

[Manateeman]

This is clearly an ORCA terrorist action.
They lifted the boat anchor and put the sailboat on a collision course after blowing out the old oil anchor light.
So can we please get back to anchor threads.
The manatee crew

[TrentePieds]

Lodesman said: "Unless you're referring to the derelict vessels..."

Yes, of course I'm referring to the derelict vessels :-). The problem had got so bad that "the Feds" - shore-bound in Ottawa, God knows how many thousands of miles removed from the briny and the actual "problem" - implemented a programme to deal with it.

https://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/sch-ppb/ve...index-eng.html

However, the "culture" (ahem!) among the men and women who man the immense fleet of small commercial vessels on this tricky coast, and to a lesser degree among us Sunday-sailors, is a thing unto itself. We BC-ers are still a "frontier society", at sea more than on land, and "rule-bound" we are not. Yet we do very well, if I may say so myself, by preferring common sense over strict observance of all rules.

In consequence the "abandoned boats" program has never really taken off. It relies on thee and me reporting the wrecks, and who would squeal on a fellow mariner? It's a damn sight easier just to go around the wrecks or - if need's must - run 'em down.

Having perceived a truth that may be lost on the world, japarker (in post #85) is saluting the duty officer who called the hovercraft into action. I'll fall in beside him!

"Assets" (horrible mealy-mouthed foreign circumlocution!) are in extremely short supply at the moment. No doubt people are aware that near-as-dammit every chopper, military or civilian, that we have is employed in coping with the enormous flooding we are suffering at the moment here in BC and now also in "the Maritimes". No doubt people across the world are also aware that certain medical procedures can only be performed at First Class hospitals such as Vancouver General Hospital. Infirmaries, such as the one on Saltspring Island, are just fine for dealing with chainsaw wounds and Covid inocculations. For serious stuff the Saltpringers need to go to Vancouver.

Cheers

TrentePieds

[Macblaze]

It was a Medivac mission. I've been in Montague (just across the channel from Ganges) when a Medivac boat came in at night. It wasn't much different from a regular ambulance in terms of speed and amount of lights flashing—mind you it wasn't the hovercraft. An emergency is an emergency and no matter how much risk mitigation one does, accidents will happen—it's not like a boat was sunk. Hell, I've managed to scrape along side someone's bright work in that harbour (actually it was my sone, but I take the blame).

Some of this discussion is as silly as a bunch of people arguing over whether an ambulance was going too fast when it happened to scrape a car parked too close to the Emergency doors.

[Harry Marx]

I never knew there were so many experts on marine navigation it’s utterly amazing. Pilots are looking for new employees and it seems most ridiculing would breeze through their hiring process which is one of the most difficult nationwide.
As an experienced and career mariner I have 1 piece of advise for everyone going after the CG Skipper and Crew, every seasoned mariner has their day when a small scale mistake can quickly turn into a large scale tragedy. Be very careful pointing fingers and throwing mud on others and remind yourself how you would you like to be treated in the event the shoe’s on the other foot.
Us as Mariners should support each other and learn from each others mistakes in order for a safer working environment. There are 2 sides to every story.
Lastly, for a vessel capable of 60knots and on a life saving mission to medivac an intensive care patient, I would be hard pressed to think 8 knots is excessive. Had they have gone 5 knots the 37 miles it takes to transit…. Well I’ll leave the math to all the brainiacs choosing to slag the men and women out at that time in those conditions to help others.
Hobbies offline are a healthy alternative. Lol

[TrentePieds]

Welcome, Harry! Glad to have you aboard :-)!

TrentePieds

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Harry Marx

I never knew there were so many experts on marine navigation it’s utterly amazing. Pilots are looking for new employees and it seems most ridiculing would breeze through their hiring process which is one of the most difficult nationwide.
As an experienced and career mariner I have 1 piece of advise for everyone going after the CG Skipper and Crew, every seasoned mariner has their day when a small scale mistake can quickly turn into a large scale tragedy. Be very careful pointing fingers and throwing mud on others and remind yourself how you would you like to be treated in the event the shoe’s on the other foot.
Us as Mariners should support each other and learn from each others mistakes in order for a safer working environment. There are 2 sides to every story.
Lastly, for a vessel capable of 60knots and on a life saving mission to medivac an intensive care patient, I would be hard pressed to think 8 knots is excessive. Had they have gone 5 knots the 37 miles it takes to transit…. Well I’ll leave the math to all the brainiacs choosing to slag the men and women out at that time in those conditions to help others.
Hobbies offline are a healthy alternative. Lol

Other eye witnesses, stated that the CG, missed them by 10 ft.
Respect is due to All sides here.
Glad it wasn't worse ..this time.. Could have been worse.
However, to avoid more chaos, much more attention by the (Moving Vessel is due here.)
CG or not.
"Seagypies" or not, ALL have a right to safe navigation... In All conditions.
These were not Bad conditions in reality, for these trained crew?

They said they came in Hot.
So, Lights and sirens then?

Just sayin, and Respect for Any Mariners out there.
Boatyarddog

[bcboomer]

Wood hull, no rigging. Doesn't need a sprit.
According to people on site, that hull has sat in the same spot for 5 years.
The boat is worthless and taking up a spot where an active sailor could use the space.

[Harry Marx]

@boatyarddog
Wow! This is sad! Lets break this down piece by piece….
‘Witnesses said they missed them by 10ft. ‘
Do you know these witnesses? Have they contacted TC? Did they get a good look in the middle of the night when it was pitch black? Did they make contact with their vessel? Did they radio them as concerned citizens? Did they contact MCTS? Do you know what MCTS stands for?

‘Glad it wasn’t worse… this time…. Could have been worse.’
Kind of like you crossing the street at 8 knots and potentially bumping shoulders with a passerby…… or ‘could have been worse’ and you were hit by a bus travelling at 60 knots head on. But good golly gosh Bdog!! That didn’t happen… so STOP insinuating that it did.

‘These were not bad conditions in reality, for these trained crew?’
Question mark? If you look at the conditions, It was 18knots SE with no moonlight and pitch black with showers?
Do you normally navigate in these conditions? Because unless you are a first responder or a commercial mariner such as these folks, you would be foolish to do so. But I’m sure you are one of the ones that always says, ‘ I’m an experienced mariner when explaining to others why your boat is high and dry!’

‘They said they came in hot. So lights and sirens then?’
Hah!!! Look at ship finder or any other app! It shows their track and speed when they hit!! 8 knots. That’s hot?? If they came in hot with lights and sirens I would be very interested to see what this forum would have to say. Perhaps, ‘WAY TOO MANY LIGHTS, SIRENS AND FLOOD LIGHTS!!!! I WAS SLEEPING!!’
Give me a break!!

‘Respect to any mariner??’
How about the island folks that need an emergency evacuation to save their lives and yet we sit here and listen to so many of you bitch and complain! Sure hope none of you ever require medical assistance off an island as I wouldn’t want 1 dime of my taxpayer money going to someone that is so ungrateful for the attempts of others to assist those in need.
Good night boatyarddog. Hope things get better for ya! Life’s hard these days I get it. ����

[ob44]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Legally clear cut, doesn’t mean folks won’t argue about it in increasingly rude terms.

Plenty for admiralty lawyers to argue about. The article states that the sailboat was anchored "outside the common anchorage area." It does not say that the sailboat was anchored in an impermissible area. It also does not say what kind of lookout the hovercraft was maintaining or whether it was traveling at a "safe" speed. No anchor light, however, is a ColRegs violation and, as such, the sailboat will be presumed to be at fault. However, if it can demonstrate that the violation could not have caused the collision then it will not be at fault under the so-called “Pennsylvania Rule.” The article doesn't say what size/make the sailboat was but unless it was quite small with no auxiliary or metal mast, it seems unlikely that it did not appear at all on the hovercraft's radar. Even a small sailboat will make a target on a 3 cm wavelength radar at 0.5 miles. But no one can or will say that the sailboat did, in fact, register on the scope at any time. Looks like the sailboat will have no recourse.

[bcboomer]

I saw an article about the design of the hovercraft involved and it said that there are a number of design flaws that limit night vision and searchlight functions.
It sounds like it's bloody hard to see out of them at night in the best of conditions.

For example the radar operator has to leave his station to look out because of the glare on the windows.

It kind of reminds me about what my dad said about the Canadian Army in the 2nd war. "The best trained, worst equipped army in the war."

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by ob44

Plenty for admiralty lawyers to argue about. The article states that the sailboat was anchored "outside the common anchorage area." It does not say that the sailboat was anchored in an impermissible area. It also does not say what kind of lookout the hovercraft was maintaining or whether it was traveling at a "safe" speed. No anchor light, however, is a ColRegs violation and, as such, the sailboat will be presumed to be at fault. However, if it can demonstrate that the violation could not have caused the collision then it will not be at fault under the so-called “Pennsylvania Rule.” The article doesn't say what size/make the sailboat was but unless it was quite small with no auxiliary or metal mast, it seems unlikely that it did not appear at all on the hovercraft's radar. Even a small sailboat will make a target on a 3 cm wavelength radar at 0.5 miles. But no one can or will say that the sailboat did, in fact, register on the scope at any time. Looks like the sailboat will have no recourse.

Lack of anchor light makes it relatively clear cut, that’s a COLREGS violation and there isn’t an obvious COLREGS violation on the other side.

[TrentePieds]

OB44 said: "However, if it can demonstrate that the violation could not have caused the collision then it will not be at fault under the so-called “Pennsylvania Rule.”

Possibly you are right, OB, but why are you presuming that "The Pennsylvania Rule" - whatever that may be - has any relevance in this 'ere sovereign nation?

Please explain!

I think you can take it for granted that in this 'ere sovereign nation, the CCG, having taken note of the License Number of the sailboat (which by law must be displayed port and starboard on the bows of the boat) may just make a phone call to Transport Canada, the agency responsible for registration and licensing of ALL craft that require one or the other, ask TC who the owner of the sailboat is, and if it HAS an owner, about which, at this point, thee and me know nothing, telephone that owner and ask what he'd like to do about "the problem".

We, in this 'ere sovereign nation, has not yet reached the propensity for litigious behaviour that is observable elsewhere :-)!

TrentePieds

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Harry Marx

@boatyarddog
Wow! This is sad! Lets break this down piece by piece….
‘Witnesses said they missed them by 10ft. ‘
Do you know these witnesses? Have they contacted TC? Did they get a good look in the middle of the night when it was pitch black? Did they make contact with their vessel? Did they radio them as concerned citizens? Did they contact MCTS? Do you know what MCTS stands for?

‘Glad it wasn’t worse… this time…. Could have been worse.’
Kind of like you crossing the street at 8 knots and potentially bumping shoulders with a passerby…… or ‘could have been worse’ and you were hit by a bus travelling at 60 knots head on. But good golly gosh Bdog!! That didn’t happen… so STOP insinuating that it did.

‘These were not bad conditions in reality, for these trained crew?’
Question mark? If you look at the conditions, It was 18knots SE with no moonlight and pitch black with showers?
Do you normally navigate in these conditions? Because unless you are a first responder or a commercial mariner such as these folks, you would be foolish to do so. But I’m sure you are one of the ones that always says, ‘ I’m an experienced mariner when explaining to others why your boat is high and dry!’

‘They said they came in hot. So lights and sirens then?’
Hah!!! Look at ship finder or any other app! It shows their track and speed when they hit!! 8 knots. That’s hot?? If they came in hot with lights and sirens I would be very interested to see what this forum would have to say. Perhaps, ‘WAY TOO MANY LIGHTS, SIRENS AND FLOOD LIGHTS!!!! I WAS SLEEPING!!’
Give me a break!!

‘Respect to any mariner??’
How about the island folks that need an emergency evacuation to save their lives and yet we sit here and listen to so many of you bitch and complain! Sure hope none of you ever require medical assistance off an island as I wouldn’t want 1 dime of my taxpayer money going to someone that is so ungrateful for the attempts of others to assist those in need.
Good night boatyarddog. Hope things get better for ya! Life’s hard these days I get it. ����

Seriously, okay for you to doubt eye witnesses in their own Vessel watching the ordeal?

It's was just after dark, not the middle of the night. 5:45 PM
Thought you knew the facts.
Witnesses claimed, they came in Hot!
Why would they complain to anyone? If they didn't get hit.

There were NO lights, sirens, SO I PONDERED THE QUESTION OPENLY.
It they had Sirens, Lites, they'd have a better reasoning, and probably little chatter about it.

Your searching for a, logical, explanation
There isn't one!
This salvage boat had been in Ganges for 5 years, at least.
Pretty obvious the CG just didn't see it.
It's the Truth.

They'll be Watching better next time.
They were the "underway Vessel" at the time.

You have a good nite too, fella.
By the Way, I wouldn't expect you to Medivac me off anywhere.
As I Know most EM Personal don't have this attitude toward those they serve.

No disrespect to the CG, The truth just seems a better vantage point here.
I respect their work, alot

You don't have to be rude to me, it'll do you know good, and is unproductive to the conversation.
You don't like my Perspective? It's wasn't prepared for you to like, sorry.

MCTS, you're not the only one to use MCTS when unsure of the traffic.
Most prudent Mariners would use this if it's a blind entry or obstructed in vision.
Pretty much a must have in The PNW.
I use it a lot.
Now abbr, can be tricky, so if you mean something else, please be more precise.
I believe in this contex it's correct.
Got anymore tricks?

Yes, been in the dark, rainy, windy nite, coming into crowded anchorages.
Usually with a search light, to spot boats and obstacles, they reflect off things even in fog.

Talk about bitching? It's just about a lack of momentary caution in a situation, that wasn't dire. Your cranking the handle on this topic....
Your just going to get a blister.

Boatyarddog

[Uricanejack]

Don’t know anything about this.

It is very unusual for a Medivac to Vancouver via hovercraft from Ganges to take place.
Most Medivacs from SSI are taken by Helicopter from Lady Minto Hospital to Victoria which has full emergency medical facilities.
Occasionally after accidents direct fro nearby by life flight.
If helicopters not required, medivacs by ambulance and Ferry, The Ferry will wait for Ambulance if requested. Via either Fulford or Vesuvius as required.
Late nigh medivacs from most of the SGI are transported on the GI Watertaxi from Ganges, occasionally by the CG lifeboat Based in Ganges.

There are loads of boats moored or anchored in Ganges. The only area where anchoring is not allowed would be the special mark Buoyed area for Seaplanes and channel in to the docks.

Of course, COVID has fill emergency departments and ICU with COVID related patients. So Victoria may not have been able to accept an emergency patient from SSI. Although SSI roads and community had been affected by slides and flooding, by the time of this service had mostly been restored.
Souther VI was also affected but again service had mostly restored.

The Fraser Valley is still severely impacted.

PS my boat is on a mooring in Ganges and has been for many years. There are some old beaters one rarely see’s life on. All are clear of approach to Public docks.
There are quite a few livaboard’s, given the high cost of living on SSI and relatively low paying service jobs available.

Doesn’t sound like much harm done anyway.

I can’t recall the specifics of the weather on the night in question. A lot of recent nights have been strong winds and heavy rains.
Ganges is not a good place to anchor at this time of year, The Predominately SE wind and seas blow right in causing quite a severe sea state. Making getting to and from boats quite hazardous.

Given possible weather it’s not an easy approach in darkness poor conditions and a lack of local knowledge.

[sailingchiro]

I am reminded of the pilot that hit a windmill at night because of a burnt light. He was a experienced pilot but killed everyone on the plane. A light bulb can be blamed but it won't bring back the dead. I question the need to fly through a windmill farm at night.

Moving boat at night should have watch and the captain is the responsible for everyone on board (plane or boat). I can't believe the coast guard doesn't have radar that didn't detect the boat. Of course a light is to blame but all of us should be more diligent at night.

The same occurs in fog, the faster moving vessel retains responsibility.