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Old 24-11-2021, 23:03   #31
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

anyone talk to the sailboat owner.....maybe he went to buy a light bulb after the anchor light wouldnt turn on...
just a thought🙄
abe
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Old 25-11-2021, 02:20   #32
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
We’ll probably never know the % fault ascribed to each skipper but it sure would be interesting to know. However, I think the greater question is what exactly is a schlemozzle? . Actually I can tell from the context but that’s a new one on me!
Actually it tends to be shemozzle in British English and schemozzle in US English, but schlemozzle is close to it's original Yiddish

Shemozzle: "a noisy confusion or dispute; uproar"

"modification of Yiddish shlimazel bad luck, difficulty, misfortune, from shlim bad, ill (from Middle High German slimp awry, not right) + mazel luck, from Late Hebrew mazāl luck, fate, star "
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Old 25-11-2021, 06:05   #33
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

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Originally Posted by deblen View Post
Therefore the CGV is guilty of a poor watch and/or was operating at a speed where it was "outrunning" their view of the waters ahead-excessive speed for the low vis (darkness) conditions.



Rule 19.
Darkness isn't restricted visibility. The definition from the Rules:

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(l)
The term restricted visibility means any condition in which visibility is restricted by fog, mist, falling snow, heavy rainstorms, sandstorms or any other similar causes.
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Old 25-11-2021, 06:46   #34
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

There should be a “**** happens” rule.

Although it may not apply here.

Some years ago a Volunteer Fireman was operating the fancy new fireboat, at night, without ANY electronics turned on, and ran up in the North jetty of the C&D canal in the Delaware River. The boat was recovered and returned to service after some months of professional repair. The Captain hobbled about on a busted leg for quite a while.

That was a case were blame was easy to assign.
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Old 25-11-2021, 07:11   #35
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

I did not see anyone post that a fiberglass boat is a poor radar reflector as radar waves pass though and do not reflect radar waves. This is why a radar reflector should always be employed. Even a small radar reflector provides a poor return of radar if conditions are rough.
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Old 25-11-2021, 07:12   #36
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

The conversation with the insurance company (if there is one in this case) should be interesting.
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Old 25-11-2021, 07:24   #37
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

'Sorry, eh?'

In my mind the Coasties should be fixing the bowsprit and the owner should be working on the anchor light, radar reflector, and a plan to take the Coasties out for lunch. Save any monies used towards litigation and maybe even spin it into positive press for the Coasties
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Old 25-11-2021, 07:30   #38
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

8 knots means moving 800 feet a minute, close enuff. CCG Siyay is 93 feet overall, so at 8 knots she moves 8 boat lengths a minute, so who needs radar? Take it for granted that whoever had the con also had night vision binoculars. Even though she belongs to "only" the Canadian Coast Guard! In GH you GROPE you way in, even in daylight - which it wasn't! She's 40 feet wide and in every turn she does the equivalent of a four-wheel drift. She is NOT the "right vessel" for use in GH. though she certainly IS the right vessel for SAR missions on this coast. There are always trade offs!

Spot is on the right track - and what he suggests may very well be how this incident plays out :-)

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Old 25-11-2021, 07:59   #39
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

It's rather obvious who's at fault. That darn sailboat figured it would have a spot of fun with its owner gone and decided to jump forward and "suddenly appeared in front of the vessel."
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Old 25-11-2021, 08:00   #40
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

Any chance it was a wooden boat with a wooden mast? From what I recall, the radar return would be compromised.
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Old 25-11-2021, 08:10   #41
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

Don't pick on the Canadians; many, many anchorages in coastal US with about 25 to 30 percent of the anchored boats with no anchor light.
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Old 25-11-2021, 08:40   #42
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

Well, it was 30+ min after “dusk”, should have shown an anchor light.

No mention of showing an anchor ball either … given they anchored in a non standard area.

How many people actually have an anchormen ball onboard… and use it?

Sounds like insurence co is off the hook (so to speak).
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Old 25-11-2021, 09:47   #43
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

The article mentions that the sailboat did not appear on the radar, however it does not say that the sailboat didn't have a radar reflector. Yachting Monthly, an excellent British magazine, did a study on ten different and typical radar reflectors and the results were illuminating to say the least. In summation, the results varied widely and some had significant voids where they did not show up or showed up very, very weakly. It is very possible that a radar reflector may not have made a difference.

https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/insp...ce_ym_june.pdf

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/arch...ctor-work-2874

The first link is to the complete article and the second link is to the magazine, which has a link to their complete article. Both should work however I posted both just in case.

This is not to suggest that the boat has zero blame, but rather to point out the rather surprising results. Unsurprisingly, the active reflector outperformed the passive reflectors by orders of magnitude.

As is typical of these sorts of situations, I suspect there will be enough fault for all parties. Luckily no one was injured as a result of this. Thanks for posting this interesting article.
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Old 25-11-2021, 09:57   #44
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
8 knots means moving 800 feet a minute, close enuff. CCG Siyay is 93 feet overall, so at 8 knots she moves 8 boat lengths a minute, so who needs radar? Take it for granted that whoever had the con also had night vision binoculars. Even though she belongs to "only" the Canadian Coast Guard! In GH you GROPE you way in, even in daylight - which it wasn't! She's 40 feet wide and in every turn she does the equivalent of a four-wheel drift. She is NOT the "right vessel" for use in GH. though she certainly IS the right vessel for SAR missions on this coast. There are always trade offs!

Spot is on the right track - and what he suggests may very well be how this incident plays out :-)

TP

"She is NOT the "right vessel" for use in GH" may possibly be the real cause of this accident,in which case the captain has the responsibility to refuse to operate that hovercraft in GH.
Of course he would probably lose his job-But.....


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Old 25-11-2021, 10:00   #45
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Re: Coast Goard hovercraft hits unlit anchored sailboat with no radar reflector.

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I hate when they do that.
Me too, there you are, steaming along minding your own business when this boat suddenly materialises from hyperspace, right in front of you, drops its anchor, & just sits there, right in your path, & all in the space of a fraction of a second...

Not really though, eh?

Boat should have been showing a light. Hovercraft skipper should have been keeping a better lookout.

Does the Canadian CG not have night vision goggles for maneuvering at speed (8 knots sounds pretty fast to me) at night in a crowded harbour. Surely a foreseeable circumstance? Especially in a vessel with only limited maneuverability at close quarters.
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