Charter yacht collided with me, seeking advice.

[SVSOLITAIRE]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Plus one!



It seems like those that are jumping on the OP are forgetting that he was wronged, and it was compounded by a criminal act. And unless you are insured for high enough limits to cover any possible damage you could do, you may find yourself accidentally causing damage above your policy limits.

Thank you I was definitely starting to feel like I was taking crazy pills.

[JPA Cate]

In the early days of our sailing, no insurance company would provide offshore coverage for vessels with only 2 crew. Therefore, we were forced to sail without insurance. It was eye opening! We realized just how insurance-dependent our US culture is. It made us VERY careful. We took $$ that might have been spent on insurance, and bought heavier anchors, radar, things to help keep the boat safer. We learned to avoid trouble, a pound of prevention being worth a lot more than a pound of cure.

Being self insured is not the same as being un-insured, but the upper limit is, of course, all that one has--no blood in turnips, so probably the dollar amounts vary across the self insured. To me, it can be quite an honorable position. Obviously not possible for people who buy their boat on time, with loans, for the bank will require insurance for their investment, but self insuring can be fiscally responsible, and actually might be safer for others.

Now, things have changed, and we carry liability only. It is less expensive than hull insurance, but takes care of any damage we might do.

To Solitaire, I would like to say that imho, it is unlikely that many in the US have ever even heard of being self-insured; they are unlikely to know what level of competence you demand of yourself, and are unlikely to be convinced by protestations of virtue, as culturally supported prejudices are very hard to shift. Sorry about that, but it is what it is, and ya gotta accept what you cannot change.

Fair winds.

Ann

[Manateeman]

I have given the original poster advice based on considerable experience.
I hope future posters will take a moment to read all my posts on the subject.
The original poster has given his perspective of events which may have occurred exactly as stated or not. We only have one side of the story.
No personal injury has been reported.
Neither party has been cited by law enforcement.
To this date, nothing has been filed in any court.
No demand letters, nor letters confirming representation.
I’ve made several suggestions on how the original poster might obtain Pro Bono advice and he has posted no further information as to the results, if any.
I do not know who he has asked, if anyone, to represent him, nor what the response from Admirality Law firms has been. I also suggested ways in which he might obtain free maritime legal advice from professionals. He asked for responses and was provided with a considerable range of options thus I will not post further as there is at this time, nothing more of value I can add.

I would appreciate it if forum readers would search for and please read my post
“Seacor Power Capsize”
I think this subject is of far greater importance.

Captain Mark and his manatee crew extending deepest condolences to the families of the crew of this vessel and profound thanks to all who were engaged in the rescue and recovery efforts.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by crayiii

I wouldn't dare comment in that thread!

I've had to deal with an uninsured boater issue. It still stings.

I have.. like the OP (but different) have suffered from a T-bone by an insured boat who then not only did a runner but reversed away till the crew hung a towel over the stern to hide the name of the boat.
Fortunately the CG put out an all ports alert and he was caught 5hrs later trying to sneak into Salcombe after dark.. the only info they had was 'a French Flagged 32ftr'. I was towed in by the lifeboat.
It still stung tho' as collisions are usually a 50/50 affair and I had to find the extra £8 grand to fix the split hull to deck join and 4ft vertical split in the hull.. it took 12mths to raise the money before I could start the repairs.. insurance companies don't insure solo Transat.

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by crayiii

I wouldn't dare comment in that thread!

I've had to deal with an uninsured boater issue. It still stings.

Why?
After all don't you just pass it all into your $10000 a year insurance company?

The relevant questions here are why, if you pay your$10000 a year for insurance, would you not simply pass on details to the owner of the boat you just wrecked, why deny responsibility, why scarper? Isn't that why you have insurance?
How do you equate the moral stance of someone who chooses to self insure or even someone who doesn't insure but who is not in the wrong, with someone who, we can assume, has cover but refuses to help the person he has wronged?
Don't be a dick.

[SVSOLITAIRE]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

I have given the original poster advice based on considerable experience.

I hope future posters will take a moment to read all my posts on the subject.

The original poster has given his perspective of events which may have occurred exactly as stated or not. We only have one side of the story.

No personal injury has been reported.

Neither party has been cited by law enforcement.

To this date, nothing has been filed in any court.

No demand letters, nor letters confirming representation.

I’ve made several suggestions on how the original poster might obtain Pro Bono advice and he has posted no further information as to the results, if any.

I do not know who he has asked, if anyone, to represent him, nor what the response from Admirality Law firms has been. I also suggested ways in which he might obtain free maritime legal advice from professionals. He asked for responses and was provided with a considerable range of options thus I will not post further as there is at this time, nothing more of value I can add.



I would appreciate it if forum readers would search for and please read my post

“Seacor Power Capsize”

I think this subject is of far greater importance.



Captain Mark and his manatee crew extending deepest condolences to the families of the crew of this vessel and profound thanks to all who were engaged in the rescue and recovery efforts.

Dude for real! I have addressed every post you’ve made. I’m honestly not sure what you want from me. You keep saying give up, and I’m still waiting for a response from FWC. I am in no position to contact anyone until I have a report from FWC. I have updated the post with every action I have been able and unable to take. Do you want me to make an announcement that you have been very helpful, and that you are very knowledgeable because I’m pretty positive I did that twice already. Please do not characterize me as ungrateful or somehow reluctant to follow the advice given. I have and continue to follow the advice. I am one person. You do not have to post on this thread if you feel like you are not valued.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ALL THE GREAT ADVICE. YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

[Dogscout]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

I have given the original poster advice based on considerable experience.
I hope future posters will take a moment to read all my posts on the subject.
The original poster has given his perspective of events which may have occurred exactly as stated or not. We only have one side of the story.
No personal injury has been reported.
Neither party has been cited by law enforcement.
To this date, nothing has been filed in any court.
No demand letters, nor letters confirming representation.
I’ve made several suggestions on how the original poster might obtain Pro Bono advice and he has posted no further information as to the results, if any.
I do not know who he has asked, if anyone, to represent him, nor what the response from Admirality Law firms has been. I also suggested ways in which he might obtain free maritime legal advice from professionals. He asked for responses and was provided with a considerable range of options thus I will not post further as there is at this time, nothing more of value I can add.

I would appreciate it if forum readers would search for and please read my post
“Seacor Power Capsize”
I think this subject is of far greater importance.

Captain Mark and his manatee crew extending deepest condolences to the families of the crew of this vessel and profound thanks to all who were engaged in the rescue and recovery efforts.

Because its all about YOU!

[SVSOLITAIRE]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

In the early days of our sailing, no insurance company would provide offshore coverage for vessels with only 2 crew. Therefore, we were forced to sail without insurance. It was eye opening! We realized just how insurance-dependent our US culture is. It made us VERY careful. We took $$ that might have been spent on insurance, and bought heavier anchors, radar, things to help keep the boat safer. We learned to avoid trouble, a pound of prevention being worth a lot more than a pound of cure.

Being self insured is not the same as being un-insured, but the upper limit is, of course, all that one has--no blood in turnips, so probably the dollar amounts vary across the self insured. To me, it can be quite an honorable position. Obviously not possible for people who buy their boat on time, with loans, for the bank will require insurance for their investment, but self insuring can be fiscally responsible, and actually might be safer for others.

Now, things have changed, and we carry liability only. It is less expensive than hull insurance, but takes care of any damage we might do.

To Solitaire, I would like to say that imho, it is unlikely that many in the US have ever even heard of being self-insured; they are unlikely to know what level of competence you demand of yourself, and are unlikely to be convinced by protestations of virtue, as culturally supported prejudices are very hard to shift. Sorry about that, but it is what it is, and ya gotta accept what you cannot change.

Fair winds.

Ann

Thank you.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by SVSOLITAIRE

I get it, don’t worry. If I was a recreational boater I would carry insurance but having a year round policy without geographic limitations is simply not feasible. To say I do t get to be a boater because I can’t afford insurance is a bit drastic and classist. With all do respect, I operate my vessel at a threshold of safety that I’m certain surpasses the average boater because I am uninsured. You can see my earlier post about precautions I take and I’d be happy to elaborate on a separate thread about how and why I justify my decision to self insure. I know I am not alone.

Saying you can't get insurance because you want a policy with no geographic limitations is not meaningful. You have no need for Indian Ocean coverage while in the north Atlantic. We keep insured and have to change our geograhic limitations at least once year. Its a pain, but is the only practical way to maintain an offshore insurance.

Your statements above indicating how responsible you are and would be in an accident that you contributed to significantly are at odds with the following post about you Can't get blood from a stone. That is the problem with uninsured boaters, they don't have deep enough pockets to cover the potential damage they could do. If they did, they would typically have insurance so they could keep their deep pocket.

Now none of this has to do with your predicament. A larger boat dragged into you and clearly doesn't want to cover your damages. At this point we have no idea why. We also don't have an estimate to what level of damage we are talking (unless I missed it in an earlier post). If it was me I would be pushing the owners for some settlement. Something is better than nothing. I doubt the FWC report will help a lot. Unless we are talking multiple 10's of thousands, I doubt getting a lawyer involved will be practicle, except perhaps for some fancy letterhead demand letter which might spark a settlement,
It sounds like you are going ahead with repairs which means you won't have to stay put and change your cruising plans for long. Good luck.

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

Why?
After all don't you just pass it all into your $10000 a year insurance company?

The relevant questions here are why, if you pay your$10000 a year for insurance, would you not simply pass on details to the owner of the boat you just wrecked, why deny responsibility, why scarper? Isn't that why you have insurance?
How do you equate the moral stance of someone who chooses to self insure or even someone who doesn't insure but who is not in the wrong, with someone who, we can assume, has cover but refuses to help the person he has wronged?
Don't be a dick.

Because I pay for it through higher premiums. Just like everybody who chooses to not be a dick and pay for insurance.

The anchorages are littered with half floating self insured unfortunately.

[StoneCrab]

Man, I hate when these threads get sanctimonious and nasty.
The OP was asking for input and received many various viewpoints.

Lets back off of the pile-on BS.

I would like it if SVSolitaire would keep up posted with developments as this unfolds. I am interested in how the story ends.

We are all vulnerable to this type of damage. Even if you never leave your slip, someone can plow into you and then leave.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by SVSOLITAIRE

Thank you I was definitely starting to feel like I was taking crazy pills.

Not you taking the crazy pills....

Later,
Dan

[dannc]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

...Sorry about that, but it is what it is, and ya gotta accept what you cannot change.
...
Ann

So true, but sometimes very hard to do.

Later,
Dan

[JPA Cate]

@Solitaire:

My ex used to say, "illegitimae non carborundum", which is fake Latin for "don't let the bastards wear you down". It will help some if you can let the negativity slide off you, as if you're teflon and it is water.

That little comment on life passed on, I wanted to say a friend let me know you have located your anchor. Congratulations! Hope you get a day shape to display, if only to show ins. companies pictures of, but hopefully for a little consciousness raising. [We found a child's size basketball, spray painted it black, and created a sling arrangement for hoisting ours, up and downhauls; Jim sewed it on.

Ann

[Moontide]

Since it occurred in US waters they are subject to US laws. This includes fact it is a crime to be involved in an accident and to "flee" the scene without trading information. The FWC or Miami police can pursue the "criminal".



In an extreme case the boat can be impounded by law enforcement if used in the commission of a crime, but doubt that would apply here - think drug runners.



It should also be possible to track down the name of the Captain (presume licensed on that size boat). If a US license the USCG will get involved.



You might also want to ask the CG for a copy of the conversation on 16. They record all radio traffic on this and other channels (i.e. 22, 23, 83, and other CG used channels).