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Old 18-06-2020, 08:59   #1
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Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

We originally signed our permit in 2019 to expire on July 1st, about 10 months total. Now due to the current status of the world the Erie canal won't be open at least until Aug 10th which puts it at over a month passed our permit expiry.

We know you can get UP to one year on a permit so we had hoped to get ours amended which would give us enough time to get home (september) but was told both by Norfolk and Baltimore offices they won't do that. I've also been told by one that if we wait 14 days after it expires we can get a new one and then the other office said no we need to leave the country and wait 14 days then re-enter and get a new permit. Unfortunately there are no countries to leave TO other than the one we are trying desperately to get to. Both offices swear their interpretation is correct meanwhile they conflict with each other.

Anyone having these issues? I'm hoping someone up top realizes and gives us all a grace period to get home. Believe me there's nowhere I'd rather be right now than in my side of Lale Huron.
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Old 18-06-2020, 09:29   #2
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

Nova Scotia and New Brunswick are both still part of Canada and neither need you to travel the Erie to get there. It's June, that area is beautiful in summer.

Is going up through Lake Champlain an option rather than the Erie?

Trucking should also be an option.
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Old 18-06-2020, 09:32   #3
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

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Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
Nova Scotia and New Brunswick are both still part of Canada and neither need you to travel the Erie to get there. It's June, that area is beautiful in summer.

Is going up through Lake Champlain an option rather than the Erie?

Trucking should also be an option.
I've been told the locks to the great lakes will not be open this year via Quebec. It's not so much a question of how to get home but more of a question as to what others in my situation are hearing from CBP. I know I can get through the Erie canal...in August, I just don't want to break any laws in the meantime. CBP are hard working officers but I've never been given the same answer 2x in a row....
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Old 18-06-2020, 09:37   #4
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

The Champlain Canal won't be open any sooner than the Erie Canal. At this point, some of the Seaway locks are open to recreational boats, the rest are planned to be by June 22, just with some restrictions and a limited schedule for recreational lockage. So there is an alternative to the Erie Canal at least.
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Old 18-06-2020, 09:46   #5
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

As the crow flies we are 700nm away from the US Canada border in the maritimes so to squeeze that in safely for my boat and my crew before July 1st just isn't reasonable. Met many Quebecers who are trying to get home too and the locks in Quebec won't be open until at least Aug 10th as well.

At any rate the question again is not about how to go home but what's the good word from CBP for others in my situation.
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Old 18-06-2020, 10:10   #6
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

Are you talking a cruising permit (sounds like) or an I-68 available to Canadian border crossers? I'm not too familiar with I-68, but a cruising permit allows you to travel around the US without making formal entry at each port of call. What CBP didn't tell you, but should have, is that you can remain in the US, and actually travel about, without the cruising permit. You just have to make formal entry and departure declarations with CBP for each port of call (and pay a fee each time). This is a pain, and is the reason for the cruising permit (they don't like doing the paperwork any more than you do), but it does provide you a legal avenue to stay more than a year and to travel through the US on your way out if they won't renew your permit even though we have some unusual circumstances.
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Old 18-06-2020, 12:09   #7
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

We are in the same situation. Our cruising permit expires in Sept. However when we couldn't continue through the canal, we dry docked in the chesepeake. Now we are waiting on Canada usa borders to reopen.
When talking with cbp, much like you, we have been given conflicting info. The best info was that we could just get a new permit as the old expired because our boat was manufactured in the USA.
When a cbp officer tells you a solution, just do it on the spot. Then its done and good for another year.
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Old 19-06-2020, 09:21   #8
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

The Montreal locks open to pleasure craft June 21st and Welland Canal is already open. Check The ST Lawrence Seaway website.
But I don't know even why your asking this question? They offered you a permit at one office and you didn't jump on it!?!? Really, what are you waiting for? Get back in there and grab it! Who's going to dispute it once in hand?
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Old 19-06-2020, 09:24   #9
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

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Originally Posted by GuyFromTheNorth View Post
We originally signed our permit in 2019 to expire on July 1st, about 10 months total. Now due to the current status of the world the Erie canal won't be open at least until Aug 10th which puts it at over a month passed our permit expiry.

We know you can get UP to one year on a permit so we had hoped to get ours amended which would give us enough time to get home (september) but was told both by Norfolk and Baltimore offices they won't do that. I've also been told by one that if we wait 14 days after it expires we can get a new one and then the other office said no we need to leave the country and wait 14 days then re-enter and get a new permit. Unfortunately there are no countries to leave TO other than the one we are trying desperately to get to. Both offices swear their interpretation is correct meanwhile they conflict with each other.

Anyone having these issues? I'm hoping someone up top realizes and gives us all a grace period to get home. Believe me there's nowhere I'd rather be right now than in my side of Lale Huron.
Indeed you do need to leave the USA for 14 days, return on or after the 15th day, and must return with proof that you have arrived from a foreign port or place. That means you can't just go out to international waters and then float back into USA territorial waters. Find a Canadian port and return. As an potential alternative, there are also Saint-Pierre and Miquelon which are the last piece of French territory in North America.

"a cruising permit will be renewed only if at least 15 days have elapsed since the previous permit expired or was surrendered; and the vessel arrives in the U.S. from a foreign port or place. Traveling outside U.S. waters while a cruising permit is effective does not satisfy the 15-day requirement."

It is critical to note that the 14 days away, 15 days before returning, clock sets upon either when you surrendered the permit document and departed the USA, or you have left the USA before it expires and then let is lapse / expire while out of country and then return on or after the 15th day after its expiration date.

You have had a long "grace period" to return to Canada [near on one year] and they do not have discretionary capacity to extend beyond the statutory limits. You had best be on your way, July 1st is coming fast.

The USA / Canadian border will remain closed to non-essential travel until AT LEAST July 21. As a Canadian citizen you will be allowed to reenter your country, but will not be permitted to return to the USA until the border reopens to non-essential travel.

Also note that there are travel restrictions between provinces in Canada. For example, Newfoundland, restricts entry to residents of the province so if you are not a Newfie, I suspect that you may be able to arrive at a port but not make landfall. Internal Canadian travel restrictions need to be assessed in addition to Getting Out of Dodge of the USA. Ditto as to entering French Territory Islands as an alternative.

As to New Brunswick, this appears to be the scope of their restrictions.

"Travelling into New Brunswick
Everyone entering New Brunswick at any point of entry, including airports, must stop when instructed to do so by a peace officer and answer any questions as required to support the intent of the requirements of the Chief Medical Officer of Health.
Nearly all of New Brunswick’s COVID-19 cases have been traced back to travel and one of the steps we have taken has been to control access at our borders.
New Brunswick residents no longer need to self-isolate when returning from work in another Canadian province or territory.
People living in other parts of Canada who are symptom-free are now allowed to visit their family members in New Brunswick, but those visitors must self-isolate for the first 14 days of each visit.
People living in other parts of Canada who are symptom-free and who own property in New Brunswick can now visit to stay there, but they must self-isolate for the first 14 days of each visit.
Recent cases illustrate the importance of limiting non-essential travel across our borders.

We’re limiting non-essential visits into our province and we’re requiring those who have made visits outside of the province for personal reasons to self-isolate for 14 days. This appears to mean that unless you are an essential traveller, a resident of NB, or own property in NB, that you can't enter NB. Similar to Nfl.

These measures support the efforts of the Chief Medical Officer of Health and are regularly reviewed with the all-party cabinet committee and cabinet.
Early action limited the spread. We’re following health advice about opening our borders to necessary travel only.
Everyone has a role to play in following the advice and being vigilant. Your actions impact yourself and others in the community."

As to Nova Scotia:
The Province of Nova Scotia has declared a state of emergency.

Anyone entering the province must self-isolate for 14 days, even if you are not experiencing symptoms.
People can gather in groups of up to 10 without physical distancing. People in a group are not required to be exclusive but they are strongly encouraged to maintain a consistent group.
Gatherings of up to 50 are allowed but people must observe physical distancing of two metres or six feet.

Travel from within Canada (Domestic):
No one requires permission to travel to Nova Scotia, but anyone who is entering the province must immediately self-isolate for 14 days upon arrival. You can familiarize yourself with the self-isolation requirements here: https://novascotia.ca/coronavirus/wh...t-order-means/

If you are travelling through other Canadian provinces on your way to Nova Scotia, it is strongly recommended to reach out to those provinces directly with any border-specific questions prior to beginning travel.

Travel within Nova Scotia (Local):
As more businesses, organizations, services and public spaces reopen, Nova Scotians need to work together to prevent the spread of COVID-19 and help keep everyone safe. Nova Scotians are asked to make careful and informed decisions about the travel they engage in to help prevent further spread of COVID-19. You should consider the following measures when travelling within the province:

follow social distancing and hygiene guidelines during all activities
consult with businesses in advance as to their health and safety protocols
observe physical distancing of two metres or six feet when gathering in groups of up to 50. Note: People can gather in groups of up to 10 without physical distancing. People in a group are not required to be exclusive but they are strongly encouraged to maintain a consistent group.
keep your hands clean (if you have hand sanitizer, bring it with you)
follow cough and sneeze etiquette
consider wearing a non-medical mask
stay home if you’re feeling sick.
When will the 14-day self-isolation requirement be lifted?
There has been no date set for the removal of the 14-day self-isolation requirement. As the situation continues to evolve, all end-dates for restrictions are considered fluid and could be lifted or extended at any time.

How do I self-isolate? Can I buy groceries?
Self-isolation means you go directly to the place where you will isolate, without delay, and stay there for 14 days from the date you arrived. You must arrange for the necessities of life (e.g. food, medications, cleaning supplies) to be delivered to your place of isolation.

Instructions on how to self-isolate can be found here: https://novascotia.ca/coronavirus/do...vellers-EN.pdf

What if I am travelling through Nova Scotia to get to another province. Do I need to self-isolate?
You can drive through Nova Scotia, but you must self-isolate for the length of time that you are in the province. This means you cannot stop at a grocery store, a restaurant to pick up food, etc. It is best that you check with other provinces before entering to learn about any restrictions they have in place that may impact your travel.

Do I need to wear a mask while travelling in Nova Scotia?
According to the Public Health Agency of Canada, wearing a homemade non-medical mask/facial covering in the community is recommended for periods of time when it is not possible to consistently maintain a 2-metre physical distance from others, particularly in crowded public settings, such as:

stores
shopping areas
public transportation
Some businesses in Nova Scotia require masks/face covering to enter their store/office/facility. Please check with businesses directly before beginning your trip.

Effective April 20, 2020, all air passengers are required to have a non-medical mask or face covering to cover their mouth and nose during travel to and from Canadian airports.

Passengers travelling by rail, motor carrier/bus or marine transportation are also strongly encouraged to wear non-medical masks or face coverings as much as possible.
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Old 19-06-2020, 09:32   #10
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

The Ft Lauderdale office just issued me a new 1 year permit in March after going to Bimini for just 7 days. I have proof of it! So whatever a local office says or offers, take it! Once it's issued your golden, regardless of who questions it. It's a legal piece of paper and you didn't forge it so get back into that office and grab it if the offer is still on the table!
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Old 19-06-2020, 10:00   #11
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

Never mind the permits, check the rules for Canadians stranded abroad, there are special rules to get you back then head for whatever port you can make via whatever route is open. You do not want to be stuck in the USA come autumn. Things are sort of OK in places at the moment but look at what is happening in Florida and Texas. the situation is very unstable and could rapidly deteriorate so this may be a limited window to get back.
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Old 19-06-2020, 10:07   #12
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

The route from Lake Champlain is closed at this moment major work are done at ST-Jean sur Richelieu lock and Chambly.
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Old 19-06-2020, 12:06   #13
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris mac View Post
We are in the same situation. Our cruising permit expires in Sept. However when we couldn't continue through the canal, we dry docked in the chesepeake. Now we are waiting on Canada usa borders to reopen.
Hope the US/Canada border stays closed for a long time - at least into the fall and maybe year end. It's a nightmare in the US and will get worse.
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Old 19-06-2020, 14:25   #14
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFromTheNorth View Post
We originally signed our permit in 2019 to expire on July 1st . . . . we are [now] 700nm away from the US Canada border in the maritimes so to squeeze that in safely for my boat and my crew before July 1st just isn't reasonable..

So the OP has a permit and knows it is expiring in 11 days but has not put his boat in a place to leave the country?? Is his plan to break the law and beg forgiveness?



Park the boat at marina and fly home or sail out of the country by July 1st! That's what I understand the law to be... no?? I assume Canada is allowing Canadians to come home, as we allow Americans back to the USA. If you have to leave the boat, oh well. Deal with the getting the boat later, when boarders open. Sorry for the inconvenience
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Old 19-06-2020, 15:00   #15
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Re: Any other Canadians stuck in the US with an expiring cruising permit?

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Originally Posted by zstine View Post
So the OP has a permit and knows it is expiring in 11 days but has not put his boat in a place to leave the country?? Is his plan to break the law and beg forgiveness?



Park the boat at marina and fly home or sail out of the country by July 1st! That's what I understand the law to be... no?? I assume Canada is allowing Canadians to come home, as we allow Americans back to the USA. If you have to leave the boat, oh well. Deal with the getting the boat later, when boarders open. Sorry for the inconvenience
Caution: Don't confuse the cruising license that is issued to provide privilege to the boat owned by a non-USA citizen or non-USA resident alien to be in USA waters, and the separate visa requirements for each of the persons on the boat.

Canadians are allowed to be in the U.S. 180 days in any calendar year without a visa. Before your cruise exceeds that period of time, you and your crew will need to leave the country and return to continue your cruise.

The license to cruise the waters of the USA issued for a duration of stay of the boat is distinct from the persons and / or owner onboard the boat. The Cruising License can be issued for up to one year duration; the length of time is determined by the sole discretion of the CBP agent at time of issuance. If the vessel remains in USA waters after the specified period of time it will be immediately subject to customs duty (if any are applicable) as it is deemed an imported vessel and it will need to enter and clear customs at each port of entry and obtain permits to proceed before leaving a port, i.e., subject to all the things that the cruising license provides waiver from.

Canadian citizens generally do not require a visa to enter the United States directly from Canada for the purposes of visiting or studying. However, all Canadians entering the U.S. by air require passports, and Canadians entering the U.S. by land or sea must have a Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI)-compliant travel document.Canadian citizens can present a valid passport, Enhanced Driver’s License, or Trusted Traveler Program card (NEXUS, SENTRI or FAST).

Some Canadians, do require visas. For example, intending immigrants, fiancé/fiancées, or investors must qualify for a visa before entry in the same manner as other nationalities. Other entrants, such as journalists, temporary workers or NAFTA professionals, must present all necessary supporting documentation and/or approved petitions directly to a U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Officer at the Port of Entry. You may wish to consult the CBP website ahead of travel to ensure you are compliant with U.S. entry requirements for Canadians and others.

Furthermore, Canadians who have been deported or removed from the United States, or Canadians with a criminal record, including for driving under the influence, must satisfy other requirements to gain entry to the United States.

Canadian visitors are generally granted a stay in the U.S. for up to six months at the time of entry. Requests to extend or adjust a stay must be made prior to expiry to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service. As with all foreign visitors, Canadians are reminded that U.S. law requires entrants to qualify for the desired stay and purpose of travel at the time of their initial entry. A visitor who intends to live, work, or study in the U.S. and who does not disclose this information to the Consular or CBP officer beforehand may be permanently barred from the United States. For general information about immigration to or residency in the United States, please consult Travel.State.Gov.
https://ca.usembassy.gov/visas/do-i-need-a-visa/

Canadian citizens

Canadian citizens do not require a visa to visit the United States for periods of less than 180 days if visiting for pleasure or permissible B-1 business activities. However, a Canadian citizen requires a B1/B2 visa if they plan to visit the U.S for longer than 180 days.

Permissible business activities:

Examples of permissible B-1 business activities not requiring a visa include:

Attending meetings to sell products made abroad;
Meet with local colleagues to report on status of foreign company (or if foreign company is the parent, meeting to review status of U.S. operations);
Receive training that will assist with position in foreign company;
Receive technical info/direction from U.S. counterparts;
Represent foreign company in negotiations with U.S. companies (in addition to sales, this could be strategic agreements, partnerships, or merger discussions);
Provide after sales service to products made in Canada provided service is part of original sales contract; and
Review of accounting/reports or technical data related to the status of the U.S. operations.

To travel as a B-1 without a visa, the visit must be for less than 180 days, and the individual cannot, in any way, be working or providing services in the U.S., or being paid in the U.S.


Pleasure, Tourism, Medical Treatment – Visitor Visa B-2

Canadians require a visitor B-2 visa if they are travelling to the USA to engage in the following activities:

vacation, tourism, visiting friends or relatives (staying longer than 180 days),
to receive medical treatment,
participation in social events presented by a fraternal, social, or service organization, or
participation by amateurs who will not receive remuneration in musical, sports and similar events or contests.
Canadians require different types of visas to enter the U.S. to engage in other activities, including to:

work
marry a US Citizen
invest in the US
study in the US, or to
obtain permanent residence in the U.S.
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