All about the Colregs no 3 - single handed sailing and keeping a look out

[sailorboy1]

I wonder what would happen if the people on this thread were allowed to discuss politics.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Ok...give it a wide berth, no problem, but what if there is a whole bunch of other traffic around including fishing boats and a few unlit ones just to keep it interesting.

In the context of this thread the scenario of a vessel being NUC due to the single hander being asleep and deciding to show the all round white light in the middle of other vessels/clutter is not likely. I read Ann's comment more in the context of a single white light far way from anything else, and the correct course of action would be to simply keep clear.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

In the context of this thread the scenario of a vessel being NUC due to the single hander being asleep and deciding to show the all round white light in the middle of other vessels/clutter is not likely. I read Ann's comment more in the context of a single white light far way from anything else, and the correct course of action would be to simply keep clear.

Yup.. even I would not go to sleep in a busy area with Loadsa fishing boats etc..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Ok Ann, you first see a single all round white light.... but what is it?
You are assuming it is a stern light

Is it joined to anything ?
Should I expect to see a side light once past?
Is it just the end of a net?
Whats its speed and course

Ok...give it a wide berth, no problem, but what if there is a whole bunch of other traffic around including fishing boats and a few unlit ones just to keep it interesting.

That's real without being condescending

Exactly. I think an all-around white will do in a pinch - better than nothing - but NUC greatly reduces the risk of confusion.

Here's another NUC puzzle - what if you are in a race where you will be disqualified if you use your engine. You are totally becalmed.

Do you show NUC?

I think like the single-hander, you're not entitled to it. However, I think I would. I was actually in this situation last summer. I didn't show NUC; I used the radio. But if there had been a lot of traffic, I think I would have shown NUC. I do have the two balls/two hoistable all-around reds.

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Exactly. I think an all-around white will do in a pinch - better than nothing - but NUC greatly reduces the risk of confusion.

Here's another NUC puzzle - what if you are in a race where you will be disqualified if you use your engine. You are totally becalmed.

Do you show NUC?

I think like the single-hander, you're not entitled to it. However, I think I would. I was actually in this situation last summer. I didn't show NUC; I used the radio. But if there had been a lot of traffic, I think I would have shown NUC. I do have the two balls/two hoistable all-around reds.

No.

Your status as a sailing vessel, takes this in to account, with responsibilities between vessels.

As a sailing vessel power driven vessels shall keep out of the way.
There is no need for an additional requirement.

Other sailing vessel will also be becalmed. They will be on a steady bearing but will never get there until the wind returns.

In the event a fishing vessel which is both underway and making way. was to come a long.
Technically you are the give way vessel.

Becalmed you can’t move to give way. Not as a sailing vessel. If there is no wind.

It’s a rule 2 situation for the fishing vessel.
Although, Rule 18 the sailing vessel is the give way vessel.
The ordinary practice of seamen, the fishing vessel should while keeping a look out have observed, there is no wind and the sailing vessel directly ahead of it can’t move.

Same goes for restricted. Restricted doesn’t mean can’t. Rule 2 again.

Even NUC should still be able to stop.

This leaves a choice for you, do you wait until you see the whites of the fisherman’s eyes in the possibly forlorn hope they are actually keeping a look out, paying attention and figure it out.

Or start you auxiliary engine if fitted.

I’m not a racer, the few I’ve entered required compliance with collision regulations when interacting with vessel not racing.

Perhaps you would be disqualified. Or protested for showing NUC.
I think you could legitimately claim you had started your engine for safety to avoid a collision.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Ok Ann, you first see a single all round white light.... but what is it?
You are assuming it is a stern light

Is it joined to anything ?
Should I expect to see a side light once past?
Is it just the end of a net?
Whats its speed and course

Ok...give it a wide berth, no problem, but what if there is a whole bunch of other traffic around including fishing boats and a few unlit ones just to keep it interesting.

That's real without being condescending

Reasonable questions IMO, but offshore (which is what we are talking about, I think) I don't see that an oncoming vessel's response would be much different if the single hander had NUC signals displayed: he would avoid the white light just as he would avoid the NUC light. The details of missing side lights might lead to a WTF? moment, but the hazard is past by then. The speed and course would be determined in the same manner as if the boat was under way and properly lit, ie radar

I've not seen fixed white lights used as the markers for the ends of nets, but if that is a common usage, then there could be the question of how to avoid fouling it, and there the NUC would be a better solution. However if it was a net, how then would the approaching vessel know what to do? That's a difficult one to answer, other than standing well off.

At any rate, the discussions have shown that there is really no truly legitimate way for a single hander to sleep, but that there are reasonable plans to mitigate the risk to the SH whilst not greatly inconveniencing other mariners. The hard liners will never agree that it is an acceptable practice, and the SHers will keep on doing what they do... and the CFers will keep arguing about it!

Ain't cruising grand?

Jim

[El Pinguino]

A bright white light....people will avoid running over it... no matter what they think it is..

Red NUC? Worst of the three colours vis wise and how many boats carry a couple of red all round lanterns 'just in case'?

Meanwhile... we have been given to understand here on CF that a majority of yachts over 40 foot keep a constant radar watch in hours of darkness on their fancy new radars as are all the big stuff........so...

Having seen your white they will have you on their ARPA... figured out all the necessary... and will alter course to avoid you... job done...

If you wish to show a couple of reds... stick a white alround up frd and another all round white down the back... along with your red over red...

Then everyone will give you a very very wide berth......

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

. . . At any rate, the discussions have shown that there is really no truly legitimate way for a single hander to sleep, but that there are reasonable plans to mitigate the risk to the SH whilst not greatly inconveniencing other mariners. The hard liners will never agree that it is an acceptable practice, and the SHers will keep on doing what they do... and the CFers will keep arguing about it!

Ain't cruising grand?

Jim

I don't think anyone has advocated banning single handing. I think the "hard liners" just want to be clear that there is no way to make it entirely legal, as opposed to those who employ some kind of magical thinking or magical reading of the Rules to try to convince themselves that Rule 5 doesn't actually mean what it says.

I think the current regime of toleration of single handing works reasonably well. There are not too many accidents and the typical single hander a la Phil don't present a great deal of danger to anyone other than themselves. The authorities of no states AFAIK harrass single handers.

Where I think we may have reached the limits of this arrangement are with 20 knots 20 tonne round the world racers. I'm really not sure that should be tolerated. Someone will get killed.

[Pelagic]

Agree with DH, no one is for banning single handing, it is a right and I view this discussion as brainstorming ways to make it safer.

I don't look at controlled scenarios ie.. fatigued and needing to sleep offshore, but those rare occasions when circumstances have put you into severe sleep depravation mode to point of exhaustion while approaching land and traffic.

For whatever reasons, im way past a 15 minute nap solution

I would think of this as needing to make sure I am not a danger to others and alert everyone, that I am no longer able to control my vessel .

First thing I would take all way off so that I don't run into someone else or fishing nets.

Second, I would show the NUC lights as that is my situation, but i agree that red has poor vis, so would also add a strobe or spreader lights to make me visible and seen as drifting.

Now that's just me trying to survive a bad situation not advocating new rules .

[secrabtree]

With the benefit of hindsight I agree with my opinion 40 years ago that travelling to Hawaii alone on a Cal 39 Mk 2 was not in accordance with COLREGS and that I'd be liable if a collision occurred. But the fact that IF a collision did occur that it was very likely that I'd be immune from liability for two reasons. One - I'd be dead. And two - Even IF I lived I'd be judgement proof - about the only thing I had that could be attached was my Cal - if it survived. This does sound irresponsible, but it was very unlikely that my sailboat would do any damage to a ship. I did talk om the VHF requesting an answer. The VHF range with a masthead antenna I estimated to be about 25 miles to a ship. I slept for about an hour at a time, about 20 times per 24 hour day.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by secrabtree

I slept for about an hour at a time, about 20 times per 24 hour day.

Are you saying you slept 20 hours a day on passage? And were awake on average for only about 12 minutes before going back to sleep for another hour?

[secrabtree]

StuM - Actually this wasn't between sleeping, but probably less than 12 minutes checking the horizon each time. The "sleeping" time was really trying to sleep because the pain of 2 broken ribs - about every 60-90 minutes. As I got closer to Hawaiikept me awake. After a few days of this pain I made a "cast" with multiple layers of duct tape (over a tee shirt) and I was able to minimize the pain and get some sleep. I limitted the time of uninterrupted rest/sleep by drinking 16 oz of water or iced tea or Pepsi each time I awoke. Water about 68-90 minutes. Pepsi 30 minutes.