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Old 06-07-2020, 03:40   #1
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AIS Confusion re: boat name

Here's a weird one: We sold our old boat (US documented) in Oz a year ago, to an Aussie in Tasmania. When I did, I notified NOAA of the sale of the boat vis a vis the EPIRB being sold. No problem.

We have bought a new boat, in France. The name is the same. Also documented in the US.

The issue is that the new owner has not yet reprogrammed the Vesper AIS on the old boat. It shows up on MarineTraffic as the old boat, American flagged, with same radio call sign and MMSI #. I've had several friends over the year see it, and email me to ask if we're back in Oz!!!

I've emailed the new owner a couple of times to get him to reprogram the transponder. He said it is expensive, and he doesn't have the $$$ !!!!

Other than the annoyance factor, is there any liability that I incur for his inaction? I'm guessing not, but is there any way I can "deactivate" his AIS remotely? Thanks!
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Old 06-07-2020, 03:48   #2
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

Quote:
Originally Posted by svbravo View Post
Here's a weird one: We sold our old boat (US documented) in Oz a year ago, to an Aussie in Tasmania. When I did, I notified NOAA of the sale of the boat vis a vis the EPIRB being sold. No problem.

We have bought a new boat, in France. The name is the same. Also documented in the US.

The issue is that the new owner has not yet reprogrammed the Vesper AIS on the old boat. It shows up on MarineTraffic as the old boat, American flagged, with same radio call sign and MMSI #. I've had several friends over the year see it, and email me to ask if we're back in Oz!!!

I've emailed the new owner a couple of times to get him to reprogram the transponder. He said it is expensive, and he doesn't have the $$$ !!!!

Other than the annoyance factor, is there any liability that I incur for his inaction? I'm guessing not, but is there any way I can "deactivate" his AIS remotely? Thanks!
the answer is...thank goodness : NO

imagine the implications of being able to remotely deactivate somebodies AIS !

if this was going to be an issue for you, you should have reprogrammed the AIS before you sold it.

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Old 06-07-2020, 04:08   #3
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

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Originally Posted by chrisr View Post
the answer is...thank goodness : NO

imagine the implications of being able to remotely deactivate somebodies AIS !

if this was going to be an issue for you, you should have reprogrammed the AIS before you sold it.

cheers,
Agreed, if you could deactivate "somebody's" AIS. In this case, of course, I have the Vesper password, so not quite the same as "somebody". But I do think that even with this, there's no way to do it remotely.

And as far as reprogramming the AIS before selling...hardly reasonable. The boat sold through a broker after I left Oz, and I assumed that any buyer would apply for a new radio callsign and reprogram it himself. Perhaps I should have sold without the transponder included. (I installed the same one on the new boat!!!)
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Old 06-07-2020, 04:22   #4
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

A lot of sailors seem to run their AIS systems with incorrect or fabricated numbers. LaVagabond did it back when they had their old Monohull before rhyey struck it rich if I recall correctly. Sketchy people all over the place. It makes one wonder what other shortcuts they are making out there.
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Old 06-07-2020, 08:54   #5
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

Quote:
Originally Posted by svbravo View Post
Here's a weird one: We sold our old boat (US documented) in Oz a year ago, to an Aussie in Tasmania. When I did, I notified NOAA of the sale of the boat vis a vis the EPIRB being sold. No problem.

We have bought a new boat, in France. The name is the same. Also documented in the US.

The issue is that the new owner has not yet reprogrammed the Vesper AIS on the old boat. It shows up on MarineTraffic as the old boat, American flagged, with same radio call sign and MMSI #. I've had several friends over the year see it, and email me to ask if we're back in Oz!!!

I've emailed the new owner a couple of times to get him to reprogram the transponder. He said it is expensive, and he doesn't have the $$$ !!!!

Other than the annoyance factor, is there any liability that I incur for his inaction? I'm guessing not, but is there any way I can "deactivate" his AIS remotely? Thanks!
You could contact the FCC and advise them that someone who is not authorized to do so is fraudulently using the Call Sign and MMSI you have licensed. As for deactivating the AIS, no, unless you have a cruise missile you can program to follow his AIS (turn yours off).
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Old 06-07-2020, 09:36   #6
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

Why didn’t you name your new boat (same name)II? That would distinguish it from your old boat.
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:16   #7
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

Easy and free to reprogram a Vesper AIS. I've just done it due to change of registration. New owner will have to contact Vesper for the procedure.
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:38   #8
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

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Originally Posted by Richv View Post
You could contact the FCC and advise them that someone who is not authorized to do so is fraudulently using the Call Sign and MMSI you have licensed. As for deactivating the AIS, no, unless you have a cruise missile you can program to follow his AIS (turn yours off).

FCC might not have much pull in aus

Also he sold the boat, equipment etc with it already programmed as such.
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Old 06-07-2020, 11:23   #9
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

Normally (at least in Canada) the MMSI stays with the vessel; you update the registration database with the new owner's name, addr, contact info.


If there's a change in country, then them MMSI would/should change, but one could at least udpdate the info for the old MMSI so the owner info would at least be correct (and non-duplicate), even if a different country.



You then get a new MMSI/Callsign for your new boat, problem solved. Even if they still have the same name, they will have unique digital identities.
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Old 06-07-2020, 11:59   #10
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

In the USA the MMSI number is issued as part of the ship's station callsign and that is associated with the FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit of the individual who applied for it -often the owner or one of the co-owners of the vessel.

The MMSI does not go with the boat unless the individual who holds the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit files a form with the FCC to relinquish the number and then the new owner can apply for a new ships station callsign once they have also obtained a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit or higher class FCC license and request that old number once it is free.
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Old 06-07-2020, 14:01   #11
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

My understanding is that the MMSI number stays with the boat. When I sold my Grand Banks, the MMSI number was still programmed into the radio. I did cancel my personal information that was tied to that MMSI number with the FCC. Once I did that, the new owner could add his personal data to that MMSI number (or not).

Point being, cancel with the FCC.
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Old 06-07-2020, 15:47   #12
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

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In the USA the MMSI number is issued as part of the ship's station callsign and that is associated with the FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit of the individual who applied for it -often the owner or one of the co-owners of the vessel.

The MMSI does not go with the boat unless the individual who holds the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit files a form with the FCC to relinquish the number and then the new owner can apply for a new ships station callsign once they have also obtained a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit or higher class FCC license and request that old number once it is free.

Not entirely correct. The previous owner can file an application of transfer and that is linked to the new owners application/license (you don't have to wait for it to become available... it is all one transaction with a lot of back and forth). I know cause I just was party to this type of transaction. Genrally, the MMSI stays with the boat because it is very difficult to change.
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Old 06-07-2020, 16:17   #13
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

The MMSI number in the boat's electronics can indeed be difficult to change. But that doesn't mean that the number goes with the boat by default.

Technically, and legally, the next boat owner is not entitled to it and can not use it untill the previous owner releases it. If they won't go through the trouble then the new owners can not use it and must either have the equipment reset or purchase new.
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Old 06-07-2020, 16:36   #14
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

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Originally Posted by BlackHeron View Post
The MMSI number in the boat's electronics can indeed be difficult to change. But that doesn't mean that the number goes with the boat by default.

Technically, and legally, the next boat owner is not entitled to it and can not use it untill the previous owner releases it. If they won't go through the trouble then the new owners can not use it and must either have the equipment reset or purchase new.

This is true and a good summary of what to consider.
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Old 06-07-2020, 17:20   #15
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Re: AIS Confusion re: boat name

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Originally Posted by svbravo View Post
to an Aussie in Tasmania.
Would the FCC process a transfer to a non-US citizen? I doubt it; they don't license foreign vessels. Best is to simply cancel the registration.

Or, if you're really peeved, update the vessel name in the registration to something random, like "Zatara". (Don't, of course.)
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