Would you get rid of a self steering wind vane if you had one?

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Is this a Voyager windvane? Any more photos of it? Have you tried it since the arch and panels were installed? Just wondering now looking at it again.

How is this for a better picture? As far as I know it does work with the solar panels on, the PO did use it.

I can't seem to find the manual for it now, but Voyager does ring a bell. The rudder has a trim tab on it.

[sailingunity]

Scratch that, I found the manual - well its actually a parts list and drawings. "M Company" Mark II vane. Drawings look pretty legit though. And I have drawings from when the previous owner made some modifications.

[El Pinguino]

Looks and sounds like it may be an auxiluary rudder with trim tab...... no messy lines to the wheel... just lash the wheel amidships and away you go.
I'd keep it... looks no different to my transom with offset ladder to port... kedge to stbd.

What you may well find is that when set up you have a couple of 'damping' lines to stop it oversteering... if you do then what I would suggest is - when wanting to enter a slip or go astern or whatever - haul them both as tight as you can to 'lock' the rudder amidships and stop it flopping around....

[Don C L]

Yeah clearly aux rudder. Someone mentioned Voyager earlier and I thought they meant yours

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Possibly true for some vessels, but fortunately not for ours: Ann is a fully qualified and very experienced sailor and watchkeeper, and I'm sure glad of that!

The situation you describe is far worse than real singlehanding, for the skipper must shoulder both the normal ships chores AND caretaking of a passenger. Yikes!

We did meet one German couple where the wife did exactly what you describe: she cooked and cleaned and did nothing else... and they seemed content with the situation and it had sufficed from Germany to French Polynesia where we met.

Not for me!

Jim

He’s lucky. Some of us sail and cook and clean and caretake too

[chouliha]

We have been cruising for the past 15 years on this trip. Having both a AP and a windvane. 3 times on passages the AP failed and we resorted to using the windvane. With 2 of us aboard hand steering would be doable but we both are very happy having both devices.

Good friends transiting from Galapagos to Marquesas hand steered more than 1000 due to the fact that their primary AP failed, then their backup failed AND their backup to the backup failed.

Lots of boats don’t have a windvane but we hear of many boats having to hand steer after they fail. Rarely do we hear windvanes failing.

If you are planning going offshore short handed keep the vane

Chuck
Mo’orea
French Polynesia

[masonc]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

How is this for a better picture? As far as I know it does work with the solar panels on, the PO did use it.

I can't seem to find the manual for it now, but Voyager does ring a bell. The rudder has a trim tab on it.

I have a voyager on my boat and that's not the same device

[izzyforreal]

I guess I'll join the fray, as I'm in a similar situation. I just removed a Monitor vane from the Tartan 40 we bought last fall. I cleaned it up and it's in my garage. I plan on selling it. It was a tough decision, but, I think I'm doing the right thing. The PO and his wife spent a lot of time making offshore passages from New England to the Caribbean and having vane steering for that type of passage is pretty much essential, even though we've got a huge battery bank. The PO also procured an extra linear drive ram for the Raymarine autopilot. Since our cruising plans are strictly coastal and Bahamas, I felt that the Monitor was not necessary and removing it would enable us to install davits that would get A LOT more use. So, the Monitor is for sale.

Mark DeDionisio
Tartan 40 Sister Moon
Oriental, NC

[donradcliffe]

I agree that you should play a little more with the vane before you take it off.

I made the decision not to mount a wind vane when I outfitted the boat for RTW. The boarding ladder in the stern and the reverse transom were part of my decision. I went with the good autopilot and the CPT backup.

When I sold the boat 17 years later, I was happy with the decision. The primary autopilot failed 3 times, and the CPT did a (barely) adequate job as a backup). In 90,000 miles, I never lost 12v power and the rudder never fell off. I could stream the dinghy behind the boat at anchor and it never got tangled up in or punctured by a vane.

If I was going again, I would fit two good independent autopilots, with one as a backup with the drive link disconnected, but my cruising budget is higher now.

[SlyMcFLy]

1973 Formosa 41 Ketch with Monitor wind vane and CPT autopilot. Getting rid of the monitor and sending it to the dumpster. Doesn’t work well. Mizzen and full aft cockpit enclosure. Heavy boat. CPT has steered the boat flawlessly the last 2500 miles (we are in Panama).

In the days before solar panels it made sense but now we have 4 ways to keep the batteries charged (solar, wind, generator, engine).

[GrahamO]

WARNING -Looks like a servo pendulum system to me. This does NOT provide a backup rudder.

Originally Posted by Singularity

To me this is really the most important point of the analysis. It sort of doesn't make sense to remove a quality back-up rudder system from a cruising boat unless somehow replacing it with another quality back-up rudder system. I think you can trim/hand-steer for a lot longer than you can survive without a rudder.

Once the above is accomplished, I'd certainly sell the vane and buy something like a new CPT autopilot (~$1900) as a backup (you can probably get more than $1900 for your used vane) assuming that you have a robust electrical system with some redundancy.

[wingssail]

Keep it, unless your sailing is only day sails.

We use our monitor whenever we embark on any trip over about 3 hours, when our helming attention span typically runs out. We tack and jibe with it all the time, no problem with conveniently located control lines. Helm adjustments? Well that takes some skill, but it helps you learn about balance.

Our 55,000 ocean miles were 99% wind vane. The Raymarine autopilot was used for motoring or really light wind days.

We would not do without the windvane.

Considerations:
Boarding: we hang a west marine ladder over the side.
Electrical usage: That is not a major issue even with the autopilot, but it does add up. We are happy to turn off the electric one.
Reliability? Electric autopilots fail. You'd need a spare. And continuous usage can wear them out, especially the drive units (we even have a spare drive unit even though we don't use the Ray Marine that much) We've broken the Monitor once, when the boat surged backwards while hove too, and we've broken control lines but managed to replace them underway.
Storage Space: I am sure that a good welder or machine shop can add a hinge to that rudder leg and then you can just fold it up or down.
How well does it work? They vary, and the obstructions aft will affect it. Ours works perfectly.
Spare rudder: This is significant however few windvane rudders are big enough or robust enough to serve. Check this out before you count on it.

[capnJ]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Get rid of it. Most of the CF populous have their heads stuck in the 1970s-80’s sand... technology has moved on.

Oooof. I still use the wheel. I think it is 10000 year-old tech, but it works for me every time I need it.

[captmick39]

Yes (get rid of it);
Some purists still adore them; I prefer easier access to solar panels, mounted on the davits, & access to the dinghy hanging under those davits.
You Have an autopilot. Newer models can interface w/Your GPS/Chartplotter & You simply tell the boat where You want to go. (We carry both a backup autohelm head, controller & chartplotter. Everything is set up so IF something takes a dump in the Cockpit (@steering station), I can power up & flip a switch & run off GPS/Chartplotter @ interior nav. station. W/both wind gennie & solar, & shaft gennie, we're never short on juice/electric.


Only catches are:
1-Someone staying on watch
2-Sail Trim
3-ummm, there ISN'T a 3?


HTH,
Most Respectfully,
-Mick

[Copacabana]

Another one for the "keep it" crowd, even if it's just storing it at home until you need it.

I think the ideal setup for redundancy is a windvane and an autopilot. My boat came with 3 self-steering options- a windvane, a tiller pilot to drive the windvane (very low power as it makes no effort) and an autopilot on the wheel (which I've since removed and sold, but would consider replacing with something new and better). I think the windvane is important for longer passages, as stated by others above. In the event of an electric failure, you can count on it to steer the boat. Having autopilot spares won't help you if there is a problem with your energy system (as could occur with a lightning strike). Windvanes are very robust and reliable and can be fixed by the user anywhere (a spares kit is also handy). A tiller pilot on the windvane giver you a cheap, low-power autopilot for when you motor or want to steer a compass course. It makes no effort as the real power comes from the servo-rudder in the water.

I just wanted to add that you can have the windvane and a platform. My boat has a pretty clever platform that protects the windvane and also serves as a platform for boarding the dinghy or jumping in to go for a swim. The permanent folding boarding ladder is mounted on the side of the hull at the stern.