Would you get rid of a self steering wind vane if you had one?

[LittleWing77]

I would keep it (and I'm envious your boat has one). All for the same reasons as Jim states, especially it is economical on power. For me, the crucial instructional moment would have been when you lost your primary steerage and just popped it in and kept on going.

Bad things that happen on boats tend to be cascade events and who knows how things would have gone without your ready-redundancy that you could immediately deploy.

I do agree it's kinda a pain about the storage space required, though!

Fair winds,
LittleWing

[Sojourner]

I would offer advice from a different angle: a stern boarding ladder is not the world's safest thing. You could get an Amel style side boarding ladder and use it as a passerlle in port as well. Much less likely to get bashed on the noggin boarding from the side....

[Kenomac]

So given the facts as stated by the OP that:

”-The components take up valuable storage space
-Unable to have a ladder directly at the stern gate; cumbersome to board from the stern.
-Could possibly have a small boarding platform instead.
-I spend more time cleaning rust off of it than actually using it.
-Limited maneuverability when the rudder is in the water; must remove it before entering tight spaces.”

The CF experts so far recommend that the OP should:

-Forget about storage space, bring along less stuff
-Put ladder somewhere else
-Forget about having a stern platform
-Continue to waste time cleaning rust off something that’s in the way.
-Continue to waste energy taking it on and off even though they don’t use it.

So according to the CF experts, the OP should put up with all this.... even though the boat has a working autopilot.... just in case the rudder breaks off.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by GILow

AND she heaves to with NO sails up at all. Kinda weird, to be honest, but I'm not complaining.

ahh the benefits of trunk junk...
BTW did I hear someone has an eight track for sale? I'll take it!

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

So given the facts as stated by the OP that:

”-The components take up valuable storage space
-Unable to have a ladder directly at the stern gate; cumbersome to board from the stern.
-Could possibly have a small boarding platform instead.
-I spend more time cleaning rust off of it than actually using it.
-Limited maneuverability when the rudder is in the water; must remove it before entering tight spaces.”

The CF experts so far recommend that the OP should:

-Forget about storage space, bring along less stuff
-Put ladder somewhere else
-Forget about having a stern platform
-Continue to waste time cleaning rust off something that’s in the way.
-Continue to waste energy taking it on and off even though they don’t use it.

So according to the CF experts, the OP should put up with all this.... even though the boat has a working autopilot.... just in case the rudder breaks off.

Ken, I think we all understand that.


Point remains that HE ASKED FOR OUR OPINIONS. We shared them, as did you. No need that we all have to agree, is there?


If it was as cut & dried as you make it out to be, then he wouldn't be asking, would he?

[Cheechako]

For local cruising, sell it.
For long distance cruising in trade winds maybe keep it. I'm not a big fan but have had 3 windvanes. In most instances I found them more trouble than they are worth. But if you have a long route in steady trades they can be nice.

[sailingunity]

Wow a lot of replies from everyone, thanks for the advice.

As far as cruising grounds, we do plan to cross oceans - but plenty of boats cross oceans without wind vanes. The previous owners used it and loved it, but did complain about maneuverability once they reached shore, also they did have the rebuild the wooden rudder once. I don't know much about it to be honest - what do you do if you want to tack, turn the boat around, head up into the wind to change sails?

Agree boarding from the stern isn't always the safest place, but many times fine. We had a rudimentary "ladder" (board attached to ropes) over the side and used this most of the time but can't reach it from the water, thus swimming must be done from the back. Couldn't find a pic of the Amel side boarding ladder but I've thought about having a side boarding ladder made.

Rudder falling off seems like a low probability for us, given we don't have a spade, but there are a number of issues that can foul a rudder not including detaching completely. It is true that I would hate to get rid of it, only to need it again at some point - but do I let the small chance of that happening dictate my decision?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I’ve not used this style of vane, but there’s no way I would get rid of a functioning vane.

I suppose if all you’re doing is short-hop day sailing, and you have a functioning electric pilot (and perhaps a spare or two ), then you could get rid of it. But on my boat the wind vane is our primary self-steerer. Even for short sails it works great.

I’d suggest learning how to use if effectively first, and THEN decide if you still want to remove it.

Wind vane technology is a great piece of kit, next step up from tethering the tiller to the sheets to sail.

Except when sailing solo, if on a vessel that is out for just a short day sail, in my experience 9 times out of 10, someone desires to actively skipper the helm, otherwise what is the purpose of the tootling about the bay trip; usually it becomes a bit of a competition to fulfill everyone's desires to take turns being the skipper, even introducing newbies adds to the enjoyment and sharing of the experience. One has to ask why did you come aboard" To sail or to be drinking buddies or to play a bridge game, or to clean the head, or to read a book, or to have more facetime on the smartphone or iPad / Tablet. IMHO, using a piloting system for a short trip is kind of like reverting to riding in an autonomous vehicle, or being a passenger in a taxi, limo or Uber ride. Why do such when you have the opportunity to actively handle the vessel?

On long passages, having a self-managing helm really eases the journey. It can be mechanical or electrical / electronic.

I do have to wonder why the sturdy supports of wind vane devices have not been equipped with ladders to allow for aft boarding and descending. It seems like an easy and obvious modification to install steps and a small boarding platform above the water line so as to readily serve dual functionality.

[Don C L]

You have a fairly large boat, and if you have a sufficient, steady and reliable supply of electrons for the AP under a variety of conditions, I for one would not go so far as to say you are totally crazy to get rid of it,( just partially .) But, to my eye it does not seem to be too intrusive, or extrusive, and if it works well the potential advantage outweighs the negatives. Do the blade and rudder really take up an inordinate amount of space while stowed?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

Wow a lot of replies from everyone, thanks for the advice.

As far as cruising grounds, we do plan to cross oceans - but plenty of boats cross oceans without wind vanes. The previous owners used it and loved it, but did complain about maneuverability once they reached shore, also they did have the rebuild the wooden rudder once. I don't know much about it to be honest - what do you do if you want to tack, turn the boat around, head up into the wind to change sails?

Agree boarding from the stern isn't always the safest place, but many times fine. We had a rudimentary "ladder" (board attached to ropes) over the side and used this most of the time but can't reach it from the water, thus swimming must be done from the back. Couldn't find a pic of the Amel side boarding ladder but I've thought about having a side boarding ladder made.

Rudder falling off seems like a low probability for us, given we don't have a spade, but there are a number of issues that can foul a rudder not including detaching completely. It is true that I would hate to get rid of it, only to need it again at some point - but do I let the small chance of that happening dictate my decision?

Why go to the trouble of having one made when something like this which we use is on sale at West Marine for $159.

[250224]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

As far as cruising grounds, we do plan to cross oceans - but plenty of boats cross oceans without wind vanes.

For short- or singlehand sailors there is nothing better under the sun than a windvane. I suppose that the plenty of boats crossing without, do have a large crew to always steer or have large energy capacity to always run the autopilot. An autopilot steerer will never experience the sound- and effortless magic of subtle sailing. IMHO

Originally Posted by sailingunity

The previous owners used it and loved it, but did complain about maneuverability

The boat must be trimmed rather perfectly or the windvane won't work well. If maneuverability means fast changes in the course, then yes, a windvane is not made for this. Rather the same direction for days (edit: this doesn't mean that it is not easy to adjust the course, just that frequent tacking would be annoying). For short trips we most often use the autopilot instead of the windvane.

Originally Posted by sailingunity

what do you do if you want to tack, turn the boat around, head up into the wind to change sails?

Detach the windvane, manually tack, re-adjust the windvane and connect again.

Originally Posted by sailingunity

Agree boarding from the stern isn't always the safest place, but many times fine. We had a rudimentary "ladder" (board attached to ropes) over the side and used this most of the time but can't reach it from the water, thus swimming must be done from the back. Couldn't find a pic of the Amel side boarding ladder but I've thought about having a side boarding ladder made.

Why can't the ladder be located at the stern on the side next to the windvane?

Originally Posted by sailingunity

Rudder falling off seems like a low probability for us, given we don't have a spade, but there are a number of issues that can foul a rudder not including detaching completely. It is true that I would hate to get rid of it, only to need it again at some point - but do I let the small chance of that happening dictate my decision?

I don't think that the very small change of loosing the rudder is an argument for a windvane.

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by Don C L

You have a fairly large boat, and if you have a sufficient, steady and reliable supply of electrons for the AP under a variety of conditions, I for one would not go so far as to say you are totally crazy to get rid of it,( just partially .) But, to my eye it does not seem to be too intrusive, or extrusive, and if it works well the potential advantage outweighs the negatives. Do the blade and rudder really take up an inordinate amount of space while stowed?

We have 600 watts solar, and a 160 watt air breeze. We also have a 1500 watt portable generator which we used to run about once a week to top the batteries up, but that was when we had more limited solar. Currently this is stored on deck but would be nice to have room in the lazarette for it.

Our deck storage is somewhat limited. Being a center cockpit the lockers there are small as there are passageways underneath the seats. The lazarette is the majority of deck storage, but almost half of it is taken up by the sealed section for the propane tanks. Of that half that is left, 1/3 is the rudder. We have room for a small bucket with dock lines and maybe a couple of fenders. At the very bottom is a spare anchor, but have to remove the rudder before I can get to that even.

[gamayun]

Couple of things mentioned: 1) I have a sugar scoop platform and the mounted vane (Monitor) blocks the steps. I found stepping on the tubing holding up the Monitor worked fine, but was a little awkward so in the future I will build a hanging ladder there instead. The Monitor can also be designed with a gate, but it's too expensive and seems even more awkward to use. 2) I'm also planning to buy a Pelagic autopilot primarily for the vane, although it could also be used as a backup to my primary AP. The Pelagic uses extremely low power and wouldn't drift off course as badly as the vane does by itself. It also wouldn't matter what kind of junk you hang off your trunk. 3) Lots of people lose rudders at sea. Having a viable emergency rudder that you can actually install under duress is critical IMO. The Monitor Mrudd serves that purpose for me. I am a singlehander so that probably influences my perspective a bit. I am definitely not old school.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Get rid of it. Most of the CF populous have their heads stuck in the 1970s-80’s sand... technology has moved on.

And that strong opinion is based on what experience? I didn't know that technology has found a way for an immediate response to wind direction (wind vane on autopilots is much slower), a way for the self steering to get more powerful, the stronger the conditions, a way for the self steering to be totally energy and electrically independent, and a way to so thoroughly and obviously teach the nuances of sail trim! And, lots more, but you get the point.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Wind vane technology is a great piece of kit, next step up from tethering the tiller to the sheets to sail.

Except when sailing solo, if on a vessel that is out for just a short day sail, in my experience 9 times out of 10, someone desires to actively skipper the helm, otherwise what is the purpose of the tootling about the bay trip; usually it becomes a bit of a competition to fulfill everyone's desires to take turns being the skipper, even introducing newbies adds to the enjoyment and sharing of the experience. One has to ask why did you come aboard" To sail or to be drinking buddies or to play a bridge game, or to clean the head, or to read a book, or to have more facetime on the smartphone or iPad / Tablet. IMHO, using a piloting system for a short trip is kind of like reverting to riding in an autonomous vehicle, or being a passenger in a taxi, limo or Uber ride. Why do such when you have the opportunity to actively handle



the vessel?

On long passages, having a self-managing helm really eases the journey. It can be mechanical or electrical / electronic.

I do have to wonder why the sturdy supports of wind vane devices have not been equipped with ladders to allow for aft boarding and descending. It seems like an easy and obvious modification to install steps and a small boarding platform above the water line so as to readily serve dual functionality.

Actually, I found it quite easy to climb up the windvane, when boarding at the stern, whether from a dinghy or the water. A bit more athletic than a swim ladder, but no great hassle. Probably a good exercise, in fact.