Would you buy it? Fibreglass over Mahogany

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Yes, very much American. Proud of it, thank you. As you may be aware, a lot of OPs tend to use terms loosely regarding how their boats are constructed. Should assume little unless the OP clarifies exactly how their boat is constructed. Most folks have no idea about the difference between sheathing vs. saturation techniques or between marine ply and regular plywoods. As far as the old wooden Grand Banks, unless they have been meticulously maintained, they become rotting messes rather quickly. Wooden boats that rely on plywood really need to be constantly maintained or provided an impervious barrier. Better the boat built with solid wood. Most folks nowadays have no skills to maintain wooden boats, and in many cases not even fiberglass boats.

The place for wooden boats today is with those people having one as a passion not just to have a boat. A guy/gal that buys one for use because of a price point is a fool.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by Reflections101

Yes, that's correct as far as I know. (The boat's name is Cadiz.)


Yes, that's what it actually said in the advert: "screwed". But his son then told me that it was probably nailed. So maybe the advert is correct after all.


Wow, that's an endorsement! You are not by any chance getting any commission from the agent?

Over the last few days reading all these comments I already flipped so many times from absolutely not wasting any more time on this boat to pretty much rushing in and signing the purchase cheque...

Please remember that when asking a question such as the one you posed you will be getting responses from some folks that have little or no knowledge of the topic, and responses from folks that really know what they are talking about.
Your challenge is to be able to tell the difference. There is no substitute for experience when it comes to buying a boat, and the more opinions you seek the more conflicting information you receive.
If you lack the experience, at some point you must find one person whose opinions you trust and listen to that person.
That is advice I give to people who are willing to listen, and the ones who do, usually, find the right boat for their needs. Don't be in a rush, and educate yourself in order that you have at least some idea of what you are capable of.

Wood is an excellent construction material, and personally I would not consider anything else, but it is not for everyone. An older wood boat will require ongoing maintenance, and that is not an issue if it is your lifestyle, but for a marina queen it can be an issue.

Just some food for thought.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Cadence

The place for wooden boats today is with those people having one as a passion not just to have a boat. A guy/gal that buys one for use because of a price point is a fool.

That is quite true. Here in Maine, a wooden sailboat can command many times the price of a plastic boat because of that passion. However it does take a considerable amount of time and money to maintain that passion. Once in a while a truly great boat hits the market like a Fife, and many hundreds of thousands of dollars will be spent not only in buying one, but in maintaining it. Better for most folks to stay with plastics. The saddest thing is to see a pedigree boat rot away because the owner can not afford to maintain it or has messed up in its maintenance.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Cadence

The place for wooden boats today is with those people having one as a passion not just to have a boat. A guy/gal that buys one for use because of a price point is a fool.

I really do not think "because of a price point" is a problem here, assuming that epoxy was used, in the case of this particular boat. Designer and yard, good. If the survey shows no rot, the buyer is likely to have many more or less trouble-free years of use of her, in some ways, maybe a better chance than with a plastic boat. Fortunately he lives in a small geographically country, where he has access to many shipwrights who are familiar with timber construction, whereas in the us, I think most of them are either in Maine, or a whole country apart, in Port Townsend and surrounding area. I would be way more attracted to this boat because it is where it is, not in the US.

If the fellow contemplating buying her does not feel comfortable with a composite boat, then perhaps it is not the right one for him, but he's a heck of a lot closer to help than a buyer in FL or TX would be.

Ann

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

I really do not think "because of a price point" is a problem here, assuming that epoxy was used, in the case of this particular boat. Designer and yard, good. If the survey shows no rot, the buyer is likely to have many more or less trouble-free years of use of her, in some ways, maybe a better chance than with a plastic boat. Fortunately he lives in a small geographically country, where he has access to many shipwrights who are familiar with timber construction, whereas in the us, I think most of them are either in Maine, or a whole country apart, in Port Townsend and surrounding area. I would be way more attracted to this boat because it is where it is, not in the US.

If the fellow contemplating buying her does not feel comfortable with a composite boat, then perhaps it is not the right one for him, but he's a heck of a lot closer to help than a buyer in FL or TX would be.

Ann

Ann, I hope it works out for him. I hope down under does have some shipwrights. An almost a dead trade. I wonder how many people even know what an adz is?

[South Pacific]

Wow, that's an endorsement! You are not by any chance getting any commission from the agent? No I don’t know the owner nor the agent, I am just an old geezer who has learned to appreciate the advantages and disadvantages of different construction methods, (including cold molded wood and fibreglass). This site would probably be better if others would learn a bit instead of being of the opinion that if it ain’t fibreglass it will be a lot of maintenance, or it ain’t no good. The only reason most boats are glass is because of the speed and cost of construction, not because it’s necessarily better, unless of course you go to the exotic materials.
The place for wooden boats today is with those people having one as a passion not just to have a boat. This boat will be as strong as any glass boat, will require no more maintenance than a glass boat of a similar age (probably less as no chance of osmosis).
Ann, I hope it works out for him. I hope down under does have some shipwrights. An almost a dead trade. I wonder how many people even know what an adz is? There are plenty of good boatbuilders to repair wood boats in this part of the world, or even build new ones. They even build new wood boat in England, look at Spirit Yachts for a well built boat.

[clockwork orange]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Ann, I hope it works out for him. I hope down under does have some shipwrights. An almost a dead trade. I wonder how many people even know what an adz is?

No use for an adze when building a modern wood boat, which includes the one being discussed here. Last time I used one though was to remove a worn out teak deck on a Cherubini 44 as recently as 10 years ago.

[JPA Cate]

Yeah, guys, I feel fortunate to be on first name basis with two shipwrights! And I think I have a sense of how to find more, should i need them!

We even know a shipwright who is training an apprentice! In this day and age! It is definitely a niche market, though.

a

[Schooner Chandlery]

Hopefully the OP will find a good surveyor to assist his decision.

Someone asked about laying up plywood by hand: Our boat had a composite deck of 1-1/2" teak over a hand-laid (fir) plywood subdeck 3/8" thick--three
1/8" thick layers glued together. It was a more common way of doing things "way back" and was recommended to be done (with teak) for bulkheads and such by L&L Pardey in one of their books on building boats. Our present deck is 18mm of diagonally laid BS1088 plywood over 3/4" Alaskan Yellow Cedar subdeck (overhead).

This thread has lots of very nice information about the strip planked boats and proper use of epoxy in wood boat construction. Here in the USA we do have a lot of carvel planked boats beyond their service life that do seem to end up sheathed in fiberglass as a last ditch attempt to keep them in service for a bit longer. Not such a good plan. I love wood boats but 8 out of 10 I've seen are not in an ocean-going condition as they're not properly maintained.

I've seen some very nicely constructed edge-nailed strip planked boats (w/o epoxy/glass though) and the only real shortcoming is in terms of damage repair but otherwise they seem to perform quite nicely. There are also a good number of cold molded boats and carvel planked ones out there that are quite lovely and strong.

Our boat is a carvel planked hull (replanked 2007/08 timeframe with Sapale "African Mahogany" and bronze screws) and it's stiff, strong, and a wonderful cruising vessel. Built in 1930, cruised extensively in the 30's and 50's, 60's, refastened in 1968, cruised in the 70's. Poorly maintained in the 90's and rebuilt by us in 2007-09. I've been told by a shipwright and by a wooden boat surveyor that a typical wooden sailboat (strip planked, carvel planked, or cold molded) of cruising size is built for a 30 year usage "life" and you can get that in 10 years of heavy use, 60 years of light use, or some other period of time. Take away good maintenance and of course the period gets shorter. Refasten the hull or otherwise properly maintain it and the period gets longer.

This "advice" was proven by the Alden schooner Voyager--the boat was built in 1929, rebuilt completely in 1972, rebuilt completely again in 2002-4. The two rebuilds were done by the same owner who liked her to perform well. She was raced in the 70's/80's and then cruised extensively until her return to the USA in 2007 and now she's for sale with at least a good 20 years of life left in her

Best of luck to the OP in getting a boat that suits his/her use.

[reed1v]

Most of the Lymans, Thompsons, and Pen Yann boats were plywood boats. A lot of them from the 50s and 60s still around in New England. Plywood will last an awfully long time if taken care of. Either paint or varnish will protect the wood.

No wood likes fresh water. Salt water will help preserve the wood by preventing dry rot and other mildew spores from munching through the wood.

Some of the old Islander yawls are still around after 70 years. All built out of plywood. A lot of them were glassed over to ease maintenance. We examined one and found it solid as a rock. Unfortunately that was after its new owner decided to rip up the fiberglass. At least the plywood was in brand new condition underneath; although she did considerable damage to the poor boat in her ignorance.

[boatman61]

My 1st boat was pitch pine plank on oak.. great boat.. had a couple of ply Tiki's.. there's loads of ply Maurice Griffiths Ebbtides, Waterwitch's from the 50's/60's still going strong.. another well known wood marque still going strong is the 'Hillyard's'

As for the glass.. if done as part of the build and she passed a survey with no foreseeable expensive problems by a specialist.. and she fulfilled My wants and needs within My price..
I'd buy her in a heart beat...

Below is a 1925 Hillyard currently for sale on the E coast UK.
Carvel build 4 tonner.

[sailorboy1]

With all the boats available in the world I don't understand why someone would get one that they have a "concern" about construction wise. And I definitely wouldn't allow a bunch of forum responses out weigh a concern.

But that's just me.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by clockwork orange

No use for an adze when building a modern wood boat, which includes the one being discussed here. Last time I used one though was to remove a worn out teak deck on a Cherubini 44 as recently as 10 years ago.

Probably no need for and adze today nor knowing how to use oakum to chink a hull. Today if someone is building in wood, if they can find it, with todays tools and glues I would call them boat builders not boat or shipwrights. Maybe semantics.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Probably no need for and adze today nor knowing how to use oakum to chink a hull. Today if someone is building in wood, if they can find it, with todays tools and glues I would call them boat builders not boat or shipwrights. Maybe semantics.

You are correct. There are probably fewer than 50 yards nationwide that can still do the old stuff like applying oakum to a hull, or tar and parcel rigging. Mystic seaport is about the only place left where sawn oak knees can be produced. Most of the stuff today is small skiff building. Not a lot of demand for shipwrights. And when it comes to riveted hulls, forgettaboutit. Ironmongers went the way of raccoon pies.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by reed1v

You are correct. There are probably fewer than 50 yards nationwide that can still do the old stuff like applying oakum to a hull, or tar and parcel rigging. Mystic seaport is about the only place left where sawn oak knees can be produced. Most of the stuff today is small skiff building. Not a lot of demand for shipwrights. And when it comes to riveted hulls, forgettaboutit. Ironmongers went the way of raccoon pies.

I think they have gotten the oak from here for the Morgan rebuild. Natural knees.