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Terra Nova · 27-05-2018, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

...Doug Fir is a great solution as it is strong and rot resistant...

Douglas fir and spruce have virtually the same resistance to rot.

Pelagic · 27-05-2018, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Douglas fir and spruce have virtually the same resistance to rot.

That is my understanding as well.

CarinaPDX · 27-05-2018, 16:07

Well, the first site I found that sounded like a good source was wood-database.com, who said this about Doug Fir:

"Douglas-Fir heartwood is rated to be moderately durable in regard to decay, but is susceptible to insect attack."

and this about Sitka Spruce:

"Heartwood is rated as being slightly resistant to non-resistant to decay."

I'm sure I can find more - it is now up to you to find some evidence supporting your belief...

Greg

captlloyd · 27-05-2018, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Condescension is you thinking you know better than boat builders around the country because you're a GC.

What is a GC ??

CarinaPDX · 27-05-2018, 16:31

Actually, it was pretty easy to get the definitive take on this, from the Forest Service no less, in Chapter 14, page 14-5 of the Wood Handbook:

https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr190/chapter_14.pdf

Douglas Fir is listed in the "moderately resistant" category, and spruces in the "slightly or non-resistant" category.

QED

Greg

Terra Nova · 27-05-2018, 16:52

Both tables show rot resistance being equal.
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1995/highl95a.pdf

Offshore1960 · 27-05-2018, 17:04

Stika Spruce is great for spars, its light and straight grained and strong. The traditional wood of choice for small craft spars. Douglas fir was used alot for spars on larger vessels on both the east and west coasts, for both, schooners and square riggers.
A good source for both sitka spruce and dougulas fir is Edensaw woods in Port Townsend WA.
If you have a local source for long lengths of doug fir and its clear / minimal knots, that would not be a bad choice at

all.Boat Lumber - Domestic & Exotic Lumber Suppliers | Edensaw

Also worth checking the archives of Wooden Boat Magazine for articles on spar making.

CarinaPDX · 27-05-2018, 17:17

@Terra Nova - Before grasping for defense of an untenable position, please READ your evidence - really. The article was evaluating cheap wood for making fences, and used mostly sapwoods (read the ABSTRACT). No one would ever use sapwoods on a boat, or anything else of value. In table 3 they do include heartwoods of the two species, and the fir outlived the spruce (NOT Sitka Spruce) by 2 to 1.

I will stand by the Wood Handbook as definitive, and research related to cheap sapwoods "and some heartwoods" in fences as being far less relevant. YMMV (but it shouldn't).

Must go now.

Greg

Michaeltouche · 27-05-2018, 17:21

googled resorcinol glue came up with this product from Grainger.

'DAP® WELDWOOD® wood glue is a powdered, urea formaldehyde that activates by mixing with water. Forms a high-strength bond. Low VOC. Ideal for interior wood applications. Cured glue resists fungi, rot oil, gasoline, and many solvents.'
Is this what you're referring to Greg. I watched a youtube of a guy building mast and he was using epoxy, but this is the second time in this thread that this product has been brought up. I heard mention that the product was purple and would have to be painted, but this is claiming tan and blending in with wood.
want to make sure I buy the right product.

Terra Nova · 27-05-2018, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michaeltouche

...'DAP® WELDWOOD® wood glue is a powdered, urea formaldehyde that activates by mixing with water...

That has no use on a boat. Horrible stuff.

Michaeltouche · 27-05-2018, 17:39

where can I find resorcinol glue, by what trade name. are all the glues claiming resorincol not the same as what should be used for marine use.

KeelMe · 27-05-2018, 17:47

A good place to start is Reuel Parker's articles on mast building. You can find them online.

Back in my wooden boat days all masts were either Sitka Spruce or Douglas Fir. I've had both and I have to say both were excellent. I know the guy that purchased my old boat with the DF mast. He puts a coat of paint on it every 5 years and that's it. Same mast standing for 40+ years.

Maybe I missed it but...What kind of boat are you working on?

Michaeltouche · 27-05-2018, 18:01

just googled Reuel Parker, we'll have to see what he can offer.
I have a 79 Ta Chiao CT 42 Mermaid. it's missing the mizzen. and Boom has a rotten patch. or rather a patch that was rotten, looks like someone scarfed in a prior rotten area. so I will probably rebuild that. seeing how I have the carpentry skills. And from what I have been gathering from this thread... you have your Sitka camp... and you have your Doug Fir camp.... and you're probably right, either will probably do great, but since I can source it locally and possibly have the mill cut it to length (32') Douglas Fir seems the best option for me.

CarinaPDX · 27-05-2018, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michaeltouche

'DAP® WELDWOOD® wood glue

Is this what you're referring to Greg.

The complete name is Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue. It should be easy to find, probably at Home Depot or Lowes, as a powder in a plastic one pound tub. AFAIK it is not classed as a resorcinol glue although it shares formaldehyde in the chemistry. It is tan. It is considered water-resistant, not waterproof, but it is quite resistant. Just don't use where it will be immersed. It is a little tricky to get a consistent mix when the water and powder are combined, but it is easy to learn and viscosity is not critical.

Weldwood also made a resorcinol glue, now discontinued, which is a different product. Resorcinol glues are shipped in two parts, and combined to make the glue. If the fit is perfect, the glue is not old (2-3 years shelf life), and the temperature and humidity are within specified range it is probably the best possible choice. Just don't use it if these conditions aren't met.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

That has no use on a boat. Horrible stuff.

I used Weldwood because the builder that started my boat for me used it. If Cecil Lange thought it was good enough, it was. I have never had a problem with it in the 40 years since construction started, and it is used extensively in Carina.

Greg