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04-04-2012, 11:06
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 207
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Winged Keel
I see there is an Oceanis 370 that has a winged Keel at 4' 2". Does someone out there know how the boat performs as to a full keel of 5' 1"?
Or just anyone who sails a wind keel:
do you like it
Are there pro's and con's...if so what are they.
__________________
David
69Morgan30'
CarolAnn
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04-04-2012, 11:12
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,959
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Re: Winged Keel
One con, for cruisers, is that some winged or bulbed keels will catch the anchor rode. Or maybe even the chain. Perhaps rarely, but capable of making a mess of things.
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04-04-2012, 11:16
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 207
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Re: Winged Keel
Yes, more likely to hook a lobster trap line and hold onto it
__________________
David
69Morgan30'
CarolAnn
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04-04-2012, 11:45
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#4
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
Posts: 7,505
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Re: Winged Keel
going aground with a winged keel usually means you will be thoroughly stuck because of the area encased in mud. Almost guarantees a wait for the tide to float you off rather than kedging.
As far as sailing ability, probably won't make all that much difference unless you are a hardcore racer facing lots of windward courses. I've got a center board and almost never use it. Of course I try and assiduously follow the dictum, 'Only fools go to windward'.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
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04-04-2012, 12:27
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 207
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Re: Winged Keel
Yes, getting the wing stuck into mud would be an issue.
I like my center board in my 30' Morgan. It is good to get those few extra degrees to wind when needed.
I'd prefer a center board over a winged keel. Just not a lot of boat in the 35 -36' range with a CB.
__________________
David
69Morgan30'
CarolAnn
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04-04-2012, 13:17
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Beaufort, SC
Boat: 2004 Hunter 41 AC
Posts: 310
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Re: Winged Keel
I have a 41' Hunter with a wing keel and 5 ft draft. I'm perfectly happy with it. I prefer the shoal draft over a deeper fin for coastal and Bahamas cruising. I'm sure it doesn't perform as well as a deeper draft, but everything is a compromise. Suitability depends on your purpose. The performance is acceptable to us.
I haven't grounded it hard (yet), so I can't comment on that aspect. I wonder if the people commenting on the keel getting stuck are speaking from experience or mere speculation? It is true that kedging won't work since heeling actually increases your draft slightly. Also, the wing may actually serve to deflect a crab/lobster pot line from the prop rather than catch it, so YMMV on that.
Scott
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04-04-2012, 14:13
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#7
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CLOD
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: being planted in Jacksonville Fl
Boat: none
Posts: 20,364
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Re: Winged Keel
My last boat had a wing keel and it sailed great! But compared to most newer boats wings the one I had was massive!
I have a deep draft boat now and the only difference I feel is that the deep draft seems to stand up to gusts better.
And the first day on my wing keeled boat I went into the mud and can say for a fact; when its' in the mud its' in the mud!
__________________
Don't ask a bunch of unknown forum people if it is OK to do something on YOUR boat. It is your boat, do what you want!
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04-04-2012, 14:21
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#8
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX/Bocas del Toro, Panama
Boat: 1990 Macintosh 47, "Merlin"
Posts: 2,844
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Re: Winged Keel
The wing is GENERALLY a decent alternative to a deeper keel, for performance. As noted above, those with winged keels need to make sure their "Unlimited Towing" is up to date with Boat US.
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04-04-2012, 16:46
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 207
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Re: Winged Keel
So does the wing keel make this Oceanis 370 any less of a blue water boat
__________________
David
69Morgan30'
CarolAnn
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04-04-2012, 17:58
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#10
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CLOD
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: being planted in Jacksonville Fl
Boat: none
Posts: 20,364
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Re: Winged Keel
No....!
__________________
Don't ask a bunch of unknown forum people if it is OK to do something on YOUR boat. It is your boat, do what you want!
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04-04-2012, 20:15
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#11
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,155
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Re: Winged Keel
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWT
So does the wing keel make this Oceanis 370 any less of a blue water boat
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Before making such a determination, I would want to see the relative AVS numbers, and compare the area under the upright and inverted stability curve.
All very well to say "no", but I'd like some objective data myself.
Cheers,
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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05-04-2012, 02:34
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 207
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Re: Winged Keel
So the winged keel is not only weight down low but has some dynamic water flow properties about it?
__________________
David
69Morgan30'
CarolAnn
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06-04-2012, 01:46
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 207
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Re: Winged Keel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
Before making such a determination, I would want to see the relative AVS numbers, and compare the area under the upright and inverted stability curve.
All very well to say "no", but I'd like some objective data myself.
Cheers,
Jim
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Jim,
Where does one find such numbers on a 20 year old boat?
__________________
David
69Morgan30'
CarolAnn
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06-04-2012, 16:03
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#14
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,155
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Re: Winged Keel
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWT
Jim,
Where does one find such numbers on a 20 year old boat?
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Good question! I would start with an query to the designer and/or the builder. These numbers would be developed during the design phase, but may never have reached the public (especially if they were not particularly encouraging values!).
If that approach is not successful, I really don't have any helpful suggestions. Perhaps one of the naval architects who peruse this forum might offer an idea. There is also a forum on boatdesign.net which would be a good place to post a query.
When we bought our current boat I approached the designer (Jon Sayer) with the same question. Unfortunately, his office had been broken into and both his computer and his stash of backup disks had been stolen -- his life's work gone -- and he could not supply the info. I hope this is a rare sort of problem, and that you have better luck!
Cheers,
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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06-04-2012, 17:54
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Beneteau FIRST 42
Posts: 1,836
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Re: Winged Keel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
Before making such a determination, I would want to see the relative AVS numbers, and compare the area under the upright and inverted stability curve.
All very well to say "no", but I'd like some objective data myself.
Cheers,
Jim
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at one time in my life, I raced Ultra-marathon Bicycle events.. and on one of the bicycles, and just for kicks, I laced the front wheel in a radial lace design..
stopped in a coffe shop often frequented by cyclest one Saturday morning to take a break, and after retrieving a cup of joe, walked back out front where three or four cyclest were gathered around my bike sharing thoughts on the lace patteren of the front wheel..
and the conversation between them was all about numbers, with remarks about the "G" force at 20MPH with a radial laced wheel and the failure point of the design..
One of the guys turned around and asked me of what my openion was on the design, and with all the cyclest looking on and waiting for me to rattle off some design criteria,
I told them, I did it because I thought it was pretty....
You're going to find those people that are so wrapped up in the numbers of what does what, and how it does it, that they forget what it was like to just go out and relax..
The wing keel is a good design, it has its drawbacks, but for the most part, its ok..
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