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Old 15-05-2024, 01:00   #76
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
I agree with everything you say.

As far as Sodium ion's future is concerned China has two EVs powered by Sodium ion in production now.

Why would they opt for Sodium ion? Surely because the S ion battery can be recharged very quickly. Does that mean we would only have to run the engine for five minutes to re-charge the S ion battery instead of 45 minutes to re-charge the LifePo4?
This was already covered in a previous post, but --
The quoted person has a 400 amp-hr battery system, at 1 C that is a 400 amp alternator which takes around 16 hp to drive. The 45 minutes / 5 minutes ratio you propose is 9x, requiring 3600 amps of charging capability.
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Old 15-05-2024, 01:29   #77
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

Recall number: 23-705, Issued October 27, 2022
“LG Energy Solution Michigan Recalls Home Energy Storage Batteries Due to Fire Hazard” ~ by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission [CPSC],
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2023/LG...d-Recall-Alert
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPSC
“...
This recall involves LG Chem Model RESU 10H lithium-ion storage batteries that were installed as part of a residential energy solar panel system.
The serial number of the recalled product begins with R15563P3 and is located behind the access door of the RESU home battery.
...
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Old 15-05-2024, 03:00   #78
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

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Apart from the fact that coopec43 has 3770 posts, reading through this thread makes me think of an AI bot
Gold, truly gold.
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Old 15-05-2024, 05:20   #79
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
This was already covered in a previous post, but --
The quoted person has a 400 amp-hr battery system, at 1 C that is a 400 amp alternator which takes around 16 hp to drive. The 45 minutes / 5 minutes ratio you propose is 9x, requiring 3600 amps of charging capability.

Thanks John

Electronics is not my strong suit.

Well the equation has changed as I've read Sodium ion batteries can now be charged in seconds. But on a yacht where are you going to get 3600A? Maybe with a 24V 360A alternator you'd only have to run the motor for a very short time? How many Ah are you going to use on a yacht per day?

"New research indicates that sodium-ion EV batteries could charge up in seconds, not minutes. That not only races past the best lithium-ion technology on the market today, it also beats gas and diesel fuels at their own game".3 May 2024


Compact Design High AMP 24V 360A Alternator


Now I have just read "EV batteries are typically 400-volt or 800-volt"

Thanks for you help
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Old 15-05-2024, 06:24   #80
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

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For you, of all people, to call him an amateur, is beyond funny.

He has done more hands-on experimentation and testing than any of the endless spam channel links you post from your random Google results.

He documents his findings and incorporates feedback from his huge group of followers. His data is extremely valuable.

You post advertisements that would make Alibaba vendors blush and cite them as fact.
Fully agree on that.
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Old 15-05-2024, 06:31   #81
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

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Apart from the fact that coopec43 has 3770 posts, reading through this thread makes me think of an AI bot
Underrated comment
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Old 15-05-2024, 07:00   #82
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
I agree with everything you say.

As far as Sodium ion's future is concerned China has two EVs powered by Sodium ion in production now.

Why would they opt for Sodium ion? Surely because the S ion battery can be recharged very quickly. Does that mean we would only have to run the engine for five minutes to re-charge the S ion battery instead of 45 minutes to re-charge the LifePo4?
It’s china ruled by government. First invest need to pay off, 2nd they need field experience and marketing proof, 3rd both cars are electrified shopping cars=>low spec battery needs, 4th environment madness=lithium free marketing…

120WH per kg is on the low end of lifepo4 (means closer to an AGM) while li-ion chemistry reach in average 250-500wh/kg, recharge 3C is only sufficient for urban shopping cars with small capacity batteries.
They are free of lithium which is their real advantage (cheaper to build) and a good alternative for 96V Powerwalls systems and low range urban shopping cars, that’s where the voltage range fits.
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Old 15-05-2024, 16:20   #83
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

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Originally Posted by CaptainRivet View Post
It’s china ruled by government. First invest need to pay off, 2nd they need field experience and marketing proof, 3rd both cars are electrified shopping cars=>low spec battery needs, 4th environment madness=lithium free marketing…

120WH per kg is on the low end of lifepo4 (means closer to an AGM) while li-ion chemistry reach in average 250-500wh/kg, recharge 3C is only sufficient for urban shopping cars with small capacity batteries.
They are free of lithium which is their real advantage (cheaper to build) and a good alternative for 96V Powerwalls systems and low range urban shopping cars, that’s where the voltage range fits.

You forgot to mention charging times of EVs or was that deliberate?

https://www.transportation.gov/rural...harging-speeds


https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwin...h=448c3e241dd6
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Old 15-05-2024, 16:49   #84
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
I agree with everything you say.

As far as Sodium ion's future is concerned China has two EVs powered by Sodium ion in production now.

Why would they opt for Sodium ion? Surely because the S ion battery can be recharged very quickly. Does that mean we would only have to run the engine for five minutes to re-charge the S ion battery instead of 45 minutes to re-charge the LifePo4?
No, as I said earlier. A battery capable of a faster charge doesn't matter on a boat, because boats can't develop the power to charge them that fast. It takes 45 minutes to charge LFP because your alternator can't charge them any faster.

If my math is correct, it would take 3600 Amps to charge a 300Ah battery in 5 minutes. That would be about 65 hp, for charging alone. It just isn't possible on a boat to generate that kind of power. Charging a battery in a car is different, because a charging station has that kind of power available to it from the grid.

There is basically zero benefit for us on boats to switch to Sodium Ion. It may happen eventually as they become available, but there isn't any reason to be excited about it, and it won't happen as fast as you think.
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Old 15-05-2024, 17:01   #85
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

[QUOTE=coopec43;3898716]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcapo View Post
https://youtu.be/EoZ0BcKjBlQ[/QUOTE]


Everyone is entitled to their view but I prefer to listen to experts But thanks anyway.

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"Everything you ever wanted to know about Sodium Batteries and my personal verdict in how I see the future of Sodium Batteries. Here it is: the final video (for a while) about Sodium Batteries. We have done a lot of testing in the last two weeks, answered a lot of questions and have learned a lot together. Thank you for all your comments and sharing your thoughts about Sodium Batteries. In the final part of the video, I also give you my thoughts about why I think Sodium will not replace Lithium and give you a bit of a personal outlook into the future of batteries.

There's a lot of rubbish uploaded on to YouTube. Anyone can do it : I've done it!

We already went through sodium batteries problems with dendrites when Nickle Metal Hydride batteries were supposed to be so great. AND THEY WERE NOT !


I love my Winston's in the house backup, and my HiPower cells in the boat.
Boat's bank is 15 years old and perfect.
House is 13 and also perfect.
They will both outlast me, and if you need another "please tell me why", I'm 78 years old.
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Old 15-05-2024, 17:10   #86
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

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Originally Posted by wholybee View Post
No, as I said earlier. A battery capable of a faster charge doesn't matter on a boat, because boats can't develop the power to charge them that fast. It takes 45 minutes to charge LFP because your alternator can't charge them any faster.

If my math is correct, it would take 3600 Amps to charge a 300Ah battery in 5 minutes. That would be about 65 hp, for charging alone. It just isn't possible on a boat to generate that kind of power. Charging a battery in a car is different, because a charging station has that kind of power available to it from the grid.

There is basically zero benefit for us on boats to switch to Sodium Ion. It may happen eventually as they become available, but there isn't any reason to be excited about it, and it won't happen as fast as you think.

Thanks for your thoughts.

If your yacht has a huge array of solar panels and a large bank of LifeP04 batteries that would be great but I don't have either.

Why wouldn't I use my Perkins 51HP auxiliary to spin a huge (500A)? alternator to charge a large Sodium ion battery bank? . (I might add I don't have any plans to do that: just theorizing)
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Old 15-05-2024, 17:16   #87
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

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Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
Thanks for your thoughts.

If your yacht has a huge array of solar panels and a large bank of LifeP04 batteries that would be great but I don't have either.

Why wouldn't I use my Perkins 51HP auxiliary to spin a huge (500A)? alternator to charge a large Sodium ion battery bank? . (I might add I don't have any plans to do that: just theorizing)
You could in theory. But LFP can accept 500A too. So there isn't the charging advantage there. Not until you get into 1000's of Amps.
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Old 15-05-2024, 17:28   #88
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

Maybe there is more Na than Li or perhaps Na is easier / cheaper to source in large quantities than Li!
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Old 15-05-2024, 22:05   #89
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

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Originally Posted by wholybee View Post
You could in theory. But LFP can accept 500A too. So there isn't the charging advantage there. Not until you get into 1000's of Amps.
As i wrote:

Sodium can only do 3C....thats too low for real EV crap
Sodium has 120WH per kg, closer to AGM then to Lifepo4
Sodium voltage range doesn’t fit 12V and 24V plus hardly 48V
So what advantage does sodium have compared to Lifepo4? Cannot see any besides not containing lithiumm.
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Old 15-05-2024, 22:20   #90
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Re: Will our next battery bank be Sodium ion?

Chinese auto makers turn to sodium-ion


https://smallcaps.com.au/sodium-ion-...-gathers-pace/



https://murf.ai/studio/project/2/P01...158359852905P3
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