What is a Ton in Boat Weight

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Are you a commercial vessel ? Haulout and transport by truck are irrelevant to Tonnage measurement.
As an IMO recognized Tonnage Measurer if find this entire thread amusing

No need to speak vindictively. Instead of cocky remarks, why not contribute your expert knowledge? I think that you missed something. If you need a crane to lift your boat onto a truck, you will need to let the crane operator and truck driver know the mass of your vessel, otherwise they will not know what lift and hauling capacity they will need. This figure will be in tons or tonnes. Suppose you could use pounds or kilograms. But this is only semantics. Bottom line is that a mass specification is needed. So why would a certified tonnage measurer negate this? Seems that you are confusing the difference between gross tonnage and displacement tonnage. Agreed that gross tonnage is irrelevant to haul out and transport though.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by OneBoatman

So in order to simply this. Let's say you are trolling along, and someone asks "what's the tonnage rating of your boat?" Lucky for you, you read this forum and you've just learned that for purposes beyond anything you ever expected 100 cubic ft of cargo space is defined as 1 Ton. No problem, break out your calculus book just to brush up a bit. It says the first integral of area is volume. If you are in the US you put your units in ft and now that integration is right in your wheelhouse, all you need to do is calculate the available volume in cubic feet defined by whatever space in your boat someone might consider is available for carrying cargo and then divide it by 100. Then take that same number and put it on the application you submit when documenting your vessel so that when your certificate arrives you have it to show anyone that asks.

Just how many Whiskeys have you had!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

No need to speak vindictively. Instead of cocky remarks, why not contribute your expert knowledge? I think that you missed something. If you need a crane to lift your boat onto a truck, you will need to let the crane operator and truck driver know the mass of your vessel, otherwise they will not know what lift and hauling capacity they will need. This figure will be in tons or tonnes. Suppose you could use pounds or kilograms. But this is only semantics. Bottom line is that a mass specification is needed. So why would a certified tonnage measurer negate this? Seems that you are confusing the difference between gross tonnage and displacement tonnage. Agreed that gross tonnage is irrelevant to haul out and transport though.

You really don't get it do you ? Mass is irrelevant to Tonnage Measurement.
I suggest you read the previous posts on this thread that point this out, including many of my own.

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

Just how many Whiskeys have you had!

Would the vessel tonnage figure not already be on the registration? Why do your own measurements and calculations? And you are limited to the registration number, no matter what you calculate. Suppose you could dispute it, but it could be a long and complicated process.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

Would the vessel tonnage figure not already be on the registration? Why do your own measurements and calculations? And you are limited to the registration number, no matter what you calculate. Suppose you could dispute it, but it could be a long and complicated process.

Okay! Maybe I had too many whiskys!

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You really don't get it do you ? Mass is irrelevant to Tonnage Measurement.
I suggest you read the previous posts on this thread that point this out, including many of my own.

You seem to be holding to the definition of tonnage as strictly gross tonnage. But generically, tonnage can be applied to any figure quoted in tons or tonnes. Compare this to other units that are quoted with the suffix "age". Measurement of electrical potential is quoted as "voltage" for instance. But for AC voltage it can be one of several possible specifications: peak, average, or RMS. This must be included in the quotation, otherwise confusion and disputes such as this one arrive. For marine vessels a tonnage figure must include the words "gross tonnes" or "displacement tonnes", or it must be noted included as a general note in the text.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

You seem to be holding to the definition of tonnage as strictly gross tonnage. But generically, tonnage can be applied to any figure quoted in tons or tonnes. Compare this to other units that are quoted with the suffix "age". Measurement of electrical potential is quoted as "voltage" for instance. But for AC voltage it can be one of several possible specifications: peak, average, or RMS. This must be included in the quotation, otherwise confusion and disputes such as this one arrive. For marine vessels a tonnage figure must include the words "gross tonnes" or "displacement tonnes", or it must be noted included as a general note in the text.

As a Transport Canada Appointed and IMO Tonnage Measurer I think I have a clue

PS. Displacement tons are irrelevant to Tonnage Measurement.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You really don't get it do you ? Mass is irrelevant to Tonnage Measurement.
I suggest you read the previous posts on this thread that point this out, including many of my own.

Guess you missed the thread title
Re: What is a Ton in Boat Weight
and the OP's question:
What is the weight of your boat
I see it used in both long tons and short tons

Weight = Mass for all intents and purposes when talking about a vessel at sea level on the Earth

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by StuM

Guess you missed the thread title
Re: What is a Ton in Boat Weight
and the OP's question:
What is the weight of your boat
I see it used in both long tons and short tons

Weight = Mass for all intents and purposes when talking about a vessel at sea level on the Earth

Weight and mass are irrelevant in regards to cubic volume which is the sole measurement of Tonnage Measurement which has been consitently conflated and confused throughout this thread and is the only point that I have been trying to make.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by StuM

Guess you missed the thread title
Re: What is a Ton in Boat Weight
and the OP's question:
What is the weight of your boat
I see it used in both long tons and short tons

Weight = Mass for all intents and purposes when talking about a vessel at sea level on the Earth

I guess you missed the bit where the OP was confusing the weight of his boat and Measurement Tons.

'Ok
What is the weight of your boat
I see it used in both long tons and short tons
My boat is recorded on the documentation as 13 tons,

but thats 26,000 lbs, is that wrong
Did you use long or short tons on the documentation?
A documentation person did that for me decades ago

Then an article turns around and says my keel is 9 tons alone
Well that is short tons
Some big boats have recorded weights in tons that are
a few tons more than my keel weight
Is that correct?
I'm getting confused'

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I guess you missed the bit where the OP was confusing the weight of his boat and Measurement Tons.

'Ok
What is the weight of your boat
I see it used in both long tons and short tons
My boat is recorded on the documentation as 13 tons,

but thats 26,000 lbs, is that wrong
Did you use long or short tons on the documentation?
A documentation person did that for me decades ago

Then an article turns around and says my keel is 9 tons alone
Well that is short tons
Some big boats have recorded weights in tons that are
a few tons more than my keel weight
Is that correct?
I'm getting confused'

Register/Documentation tons have nothing to do with weight. Long or short tons or tonnes are irrelevant to Gross or Net Tonnage Measurement.

Your keel dimensions or weight or volume have nothing to do with register/documentation tonnage.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Register/Documentation tons have nothing to do with weight. Long or short tons or tonnes are irrelevant to Gross or Net Tonnage Measurement.

Your keel dimensions or weight or volume have nothing to do with register/documentation tonnage.

Which point was made clearly back in Post #3

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by StuM

Which point was made clearly back in Post #3

And yet 99 posts later people are still arguing against it

[Dieseldude]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

And yet 99 posts later people are still arguing against it

Some people just do not read the thread. The point was made several times that gross registered tonnage is based upon an obscure idea that 100 cubic feet equates to one ton mass of cargo capacity, which is certainly not accurate. Mass to volume relationship will vary if the cargo is feathers, cotton, or iron ore for example. This standard was only adopted for administrative purposes only.



But the actual mass of a vessel is based upon mass of water it displaces, which is equal to the true the mass of a vessel. But this varies with how heavily laden the vessel is. There have been some very good details explained by some users, and there have been a few misapplied or misunderstood terminologies. Think that this thread has reached its limit of usefulness.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dieseldude

Some people just do not read the thread. The point was made several times that gross registered tonnage is based upon an obscure idea that 100 cubic feet equates to one ton mass of cargo capacity, which is certainly not accurate. Mass to volume relationship will vary if the cargo is feathers, cotton, or iron ore for example. This standard was only adopted for administrative purposes only.



But the actual mass of a vessel is based upon mass of water it displaces, which is equal to the true the mass of a vessel. But this varies with how heavily laden the vessel is. There have been some very good details explained by some users, and there have been a few misapplied or misunderstood terminologies. Think that this thread has reached its limit of usefulness.

Over 59 years since I first went to sea and I had to wait for this thread to see the word 'mass' used when discussing 'tonnage'.