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Old 05-07-2021, 08:08   #61
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

It appears you have three different metals in the first picture, stainless steel, iron and the flange, I would guess to be bronze or brass. That is never a good idea anywhere on a boat . In the second picture, it appears the thru hull is not centered in the indented portion of the hull. That may not allow for a flange type thru hull without a little fiberglass work . Leaving the boat for six months, I would make sure nothing is left in the boat that could fall or roll against either of these fittings and cause more damage or a failure . Knowing the condition of these valves may make for six months of wondering if the boat is afloat. Yes they need attention , how long they might last is just a guess. Remember , you are seeing the side of the fitting that is not exposed to the salt water. There is an old Army expression " hope is not a method"
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Old 05-07-2021, 08:13   #62
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

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Ps. Are you a USCG Captain, Master Mariner? If not, please drop Capt. from your name....

You do know this is just a forum, right?
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Old 05-07-2021, 08:28   #63
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

I rarely post unless I have something different to add. BUT, I would not even designate that as a thru hull. That is a pipe flange made proud by a little epoxy paste. Then you have a valve on a pipe. I have seen all kinds of stuff, and usually I tell people "They didn't do that in the yard, it was a previous owner!"

This is kinda sad for a major boat manufacturer to do this. Thru hulls need to be protected from sideways hits on the interior side. The arrangement that you have looks like it was built from a pile of designs, this design having the greatest chance of failure from a sideways hit.

Generally, since you may have to do several, you should have at minimum a backing plate of an appropriate hardwood, (NOT PLYWOOD), the mushroom piece, the backing nut, and a valve that is designed to fit directly onto, or actually be bolted to the mushroom nut. IT is important that the materials are the same, all though some modern plastic materials will not react with any metal.

When it all goes to heck, and stuff is a flying around in the storage compartments, thru hulls like you have might take a hit and then break or leak significantly at those rusty looking threads. This may just be bad quality stainless fittings, but it sure looks like something in that collection of parts is rusting.

Once again, the problem there is very little protection from some item sliding along the inside of the hull and striking that assembly that I would not actually call a thru hull.

Obviously you should have hardwood dowels that you can jam into a clean break. This should not make you sleep completely easy, since Gomer's law says the one that will leak like crazy will be impossible to get at, and you wont be able to drive the wood plug into the pipe, so you will wind up in the morning in the drink trying to pound a plug into a hole with a hammer under water.

I would consider asking for my money back from the surveyor. The good news is that even though there will be significant expense, at least you have identified and are repairing a problem before it sinks you.

If there is a lady around and concerned, make the best of it and note that this is a "safety issue". This is not some new vessel ID integrated with radar thing that only works somehow when you can connect to the internet, this is a primary safety issue.
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Old 05-07-2021, 08:37   #64
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

I also recommend Tru Design. I have a euro production boat. Very happy with overall build quality, except the horrible thru hulls. I replaced 13 thru hulls (skin fitting, support collar, valve, tail piece) for less than $1000, and I really like their quality, strength, and design. I prefer them to bronze. They are great and cheap. I’d replace every single one you have below the waterline.
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:00   #65
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

This thread got me thinking. I would love to see a video under real conditions of what pounding in a wood dowel involves. I imagine the flow of water ingress is intense and one would often be already submerged when found and then having to place the dowel.

Also, is there a standard refit timeline for proper great quality thruhull replacement? 10 years? 20 years?

Also, any comments on the foam triangular plugs such as "Tru-plug" or "Sta-plug"? Worth having? Always seemed to me like they could potentially be useful for plugging other hull damage.

Thanks!
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:10   #66
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

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You must have missed that info in the link to Rod Collins article? IIRC he discusses this in depth. In short, there is no comparison, the Groco adapters have a much thicker wall at that threaded part… I believe 3x as thick.
That's good. I wondered about that. So now I wonder if you then need to buy one size larger? If you need a normal 3/4" you buy a 1"?

I think personally there should be much more availability of real tapered cone seacocks though. Ball valves fail, I know they do. I've had 3 fail in 20 years in my rather complex home water system (fresh water). Still they are pretty good, but many have one weak link, a very small shaft size in one place.
A tapered seacock can leak after a long time of no service, but it will be minimal and repairable and not an emergency. The matched taper thing isn't really even a big deal, I never dressed any of mine at all, just cleaned and re-lubed. The ones I had on the boat in my avatar even had some casting flaws in the taper (large pits). But that tapered area is so long it's not an issue. I used lanolin for lube on mine... uneffected by water.
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:19   #67
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

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The commanding officer of a navy vessel is not a USCG licensed individual but is called captain due to him being the boss on the boat.
So you really need to loose the condescending attitude

Me HtC ret. Unlimited tonnage engineer.
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:22   #68
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

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Originally Posted by doctorbill View Post
This thread got me thinking. I would love to see a video under real conditions of what pounding in a wood dowel involves. I imagine the flow of water ingress is intense and one would often be already submerged when found and then having to place the dowel.

Also, is there a standard refit timeline for proper great quality thruhull replacement? 10 years? 20 years?

Also, any comments on the foam triangular plugs such as "Tru-plug" or "Sta-plug"? Worth having? Always seemed to me like they could potentially be useful for plugging other hull damage.

Thanks!
Actually the plugs are conical like a teepee not straight dowels. .
All thruhulls should be checked at a minimum of one a season internal visual
And eternal at each haulout unless internal visual is showing a possible issue .
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:18   #69
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

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Also, is there a standard refit timeline for proper great quality thruhull replacement? 10 years? 20 years?


Thanks!
I replaced all thruhulls and valves in my 1985 Beneteau in 2006. The old ones were still good and strong when I removed them, but I treated it like replacing the standing rigging every 10-12 years--you don't know if you have a problem, but the consequences of failure are high. My boat was built before Beneteau switched from bronze to brass. I was in Turkey at the time, and the boatyard manager told me I needed to bring new bronze ones from the US, as he could not source them in Europe. I did have considerable difficulty finding bronze nipples, and I can see why some builders may shortcut with brass. Brass is a no no, it self-corrodes in salt water.

I cut off the mushroom flanges with a 4 in angle grinder by holding the grinder perpendicular to the flange and rotating it 180 degrees. It took less than a minute per thruhull, and the valve and piping just lifted out from the inside of the boat. I had no qualms about combining NPT and NST threads--it gave a joint that was strong, watertight, and resistant to rotation.

I think the bolted in seacock is overkill expensive. I didn't store unsecured batteries by my thruhulls, and that is about the only thing heavy enough to break one off. I also didn't jump up and down on them, but I did hit them with a hammer at every haulout.
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:49   #70
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

I have a Benateau 50 (1998) that I just replaced all the thruhulls on. They were brass, not bronze. And so were the valves and fittings. Brass is alloyed with zinc, which acts the same as the zinc anodes you put on the prop. And it dissolves the same in sea water with any electric current, leaving a soft spongy mostly copper metal with no strength. When I went to remove them, half just crumbled with my bare hands. I've spoken with other owners of Beneteau brands (Jenneau is one), and they have had the same experience. Some say Beneteau had a "special brass alloy", but experience belies this. I've replaced all my thruhulls and valves with GRP plastics, and would advise you to do the same, or bronze.
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Old 05-07-2021, 13:18   #71
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

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I just installed a new through hull using Trudesign fittings from New Zealand. Very impressed with their designs including the load bearing collar which protects the skin fitting entirely. Bonus is that they are substantially cheaper than any bronze ones.
https://www.trudesign.nz/marine/products
Not available for love nor money in the UK at the moment. I found one 3/4 valve at £54. Bronze was half that price, decision made and new valve fitted.

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Old 05-07-2021, 13:55   #72
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

We understand owners who try to save money on projects but renewing your hull penetrations is not the area you want to apply that thinking.
I’ve never thought a lot of the 500 lb pull test. I think that a lot of the forum members who sail offshore travel already secured heavy stuff like batteries.
A jammed open seacock is an invitation to a further disaster.
We see the primary advantage of the Groco adaptor plate is “fix -ability”.
You can change the valve or simply cap it. I’m not sleeping with some tooth pick stuck in the hole. Caps don’t leak...or fall out...and you can screw one on, one handed, at sea, in a storm, bouncing around, and it’s done. Hammers and wood plugs might split the interior thru hull nut and send the whole mess into the sea leaving you with a BIG nasty hole in your hull that might not be round.
Supported ball valves...as a matter of fact...all plastic valves and thru hulls cannot take grinding on the exterior of the hull. Rock, coral, another boat, a fierce bad orca attack...sorry, I got carried away...well if your boat ever ended on something sharp, you’d wish your Hull penetration were not plastic.
A supported ball valve even stuck in with Plexus, is not a seacock, will never be as strong and MOST IMPORTANTLY...cannot be fixed at sea.
And that’s where we sail.
Happy trails to you
Captain Mark and his manatee crew.
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Old 05-07-2021, 14:06   #73
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

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Supported ball valves...as a matter of fact...all plastic valves and thru hulls cannot take grinding on the exterior of the hull. Rock, coral, another boat, a fierce bad orca attack...sorry, I got carried away...well if your boat ever ended on something sharp, you’d wish your Hull penetration were not plastic.
A supported ball valve even stuck in with Plexus, is not a seacock, will never be as strong and MOST IMPORTANTLY...cannot be fixed at sea.
And that’s where we sail.
Happy trails to you
Captain Mark and his manatee crew.
My whole hull is plastic (grp, aka fiberglass), I'm not concerned that the mushroom skin fittings are too (glass reinforced composite). After grinding out several bronze and several Tru-design skin fittings, and can tell you that the Tru-design ones are very tough. I have no reservations about their strength, and they are more impact resistant than the metal ones too. I went through several blades cutting them to length, and even when cut 95% of the way through, they would not snap off. Tru Design would be my choice even if they cost substantially more than bronze. Happily, they are substantially cheaper.
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Old 05-07-2021, 14:31   #74
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

Capt. Caveman,
I have a little information that I hope will be helpful.
Depending on the year of manufacture, i.e. earlier than about 2014-5, boats made in Europe, specifically Lagoon, Beneteau etc. were manufactured with brass through hulls (skin fittings in Euro language). This was the norm for years. The manufacturer recommendations were to replace every 5 years. The brass fittings, some look shiny silver because they are nickel plated, are very inexpensive and easy to change. Certainly in the Lagoon world, in which I am very familiar, they changed to bronze fittings around the 2014-5 era.
It is important to note that under no circumstances should brass through hulls be bonded to each other or to any other metal in the boat. This WILL cause rapid release of the zinc component in the metal, which will take on a PINK color. In this condition the through hulls have become brittle and can fail.
However, if the brass through hulls and every metal fitting attached to them, i.e. the ball valve and hose barb, are also brass, they last quite well. In fact I had some on my previous Lagoon that were 14 years old and still in good condition.
Regarding a comment in this thread about the valves needing to be bolted to the hull. The EU specification for strength of a through hull is that when loaded with 150kg load at the hose barb end of an assembly that is oriented in the horizontal plane, the valve will not break. The ABYC (US) requirement is that the same valve assembly test has to withstand 500lbs for 30 seconds. Therefore the valve you show is not manufactured to meet the US standard but the EU standard.
Regarding replacement. Brass through hull valves, ball valves and hose barbs will start to show verdigris, as yours have. You should carefully monitor this and if any sign of pinkness becomes evident you should replace the valve.
I have successfully used TruDesign carbon reinforced valves on my current Lagoon 450 which was delivered with the brass fittings. TruDesign make valve assemblies that comply with EU specification and can be made to ABYC specification by the addition of a n inexpensive collar that fits on the through hull prior to the installation of the valve.
I hope this helps to answer your question.
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Old 05-07-2021, 17:30   #75
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Re: What do you think of my thru hull condition?

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That's good. I wondered about that. So now I wonder if you then need to buy one size larger? If you need a normal 3/4" you buy a 1"?

I think personally there should be much more availability of real tapered…
I think you should simply read Rod’s article instead of fantasize over it You know he’s the resident expert on the subject, right?
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