What are the recommended refit locations in the US? ie Best labor price to quality?

[mike mck]

Originally Posted by alaskanviking

What are the recommended refit locations in the USA? Best labor price for quality work?

Hi, I am looking for some help in choosing locations for some refit, and modifications. Specifically I am trying to find good places with the best labor rates for quality work. Boat is a Passport 42ft pilothouse cutter with a 6.5ft draft and 13ft beam. I can do a lot of work myself as I am experienced in boat repair, maintenance, Electrical, diesel engines, and fiberglass work, and may have some ABYC certifications next year if I can swing it. The problem is usually time and space/work area.

Background: I am from the PNW, but currently stationed in San Diego, Active Duty Navy and up to choose orders in January. A rough look at what MAY be available has a lot of east coast billets (jobs). As this will be a last tour before I retire, ideally I am looking at stuff by Seattle, or Everett Washington. I am also looking at Little Creek/Virginia Beach Virginia, Jacksonville or Pensacola Florida. I haven’t made up my mind on where I want to retire too. I have very little experience or knowledge with the east coast, so part of me wants to transfer there to get the feel of it and helps decide if I want to be east or west of panama when I get out. To simplify I get to move to Florida, Virginia, Washington, or stay in San Diego, and then two years later I get to move anywhere I want. The Navy partially helps with the moving bill (boats are complicated for PCS moves).

Essentially I would like to stack the cards in my favor and push for billets in areas that I can get some work knocked off of my list. If I transfer I will likely ship my boat. As I would have to pull my mast, I could take advantage of that opportunity to redo the mast and rigging. If I have it in dry storage I could effectively get to both sides of the boat for painting/varnish/wax/polish canvas work ect. Things that are difficult in a slip, or I have to plan, haul out, pray that contracted work goes according to schedule, and that military tasking’s don’t come up to change my schedule.

San Diego is expensive! The general attitude here is if you have a boat you have money. The State, City, Marina’s, and Boat Yards conspire to extract as much money as possible from you somewhere in the rate of double/triple anywhere else, and sadly not always at quality. There are Venders that do quality work, but expect to pay premium California prices. Labor rates are in the 100-150 an hour range, plus all the fees, taxes, nickel and dimes, hassles ect that aren’t even mentioned on quotes. Many try to hawk cheap gear and equipment to bring down the price. I got a Quote this summer, $1000 to haul out, another $1000 for bottom paint using the crappy eco stuff that you have to redo every 1-2 years. They won’t let you bring your own good paint (3-5 years) and do it yourself (this was a DIY yard). If there are places on the east coast or in Washington like this I’d like to know so I could push for benificial and reasonable locations. To clarify, I dont mind paying for good work, I dont like dealing with a "your small $1-5k or less project is barely worth our while, we are busy unless you have a mega yacht", then pay top dollar, and get nickle and dimed on top of that.

I have seen high quality work for decent prices in Mexico, however military are unable to go to Mexico at this time, and my schedule doesn’t allow me to go down and supervise for several weeks.

V/R

Robert

Robert
Not in the US but if boat is on the west coast. Baja Naval in Ensenada might be a good spot for a refit. Labor rate is $28.00/hr. I plan on having thebottom done on my 37 ft Hatteras done there this winter. $1200.00. Sand to barrier coat and 2 coats of Bottom paint.
I reviewed their web site and they appear to be able to handle anything you may need.
Worth a look.
Mike

[boat-bidder]

Just south of Norfolk on the ICW is Atlantic Yacht Basin, in Chesapeake Va.
they are very experienced , reasonable and honest. They get real busy in the spring and fall with guys like me who are transmitting snowbirds, but winter and summer should be easy.
I have had extensive mechanical and cosmetic work done there, many times. Always very happy with the outcome.

[AuroraGH]

Originally Posted by SVChasingAmy

I am also looking for somewhere in Southern California to put my boat on the hard and do some work myself.
I totally understand the San Diego thing. I spend $900 /mo. for a slip and the last time I had work done, the rate was $150/hr. for changing out thru hulls that I could have done myself, but the yard required a licensed tech.

Are there any dry storage yards that will allow some DIY that is relatively close to San Diego, Long Beach or Oxnard?

Sounds like we both need some advice!

Koehler Kraft on Shelter Island is an old school DIY boat yard with a marine railway haulout, good people, and reasonable rates. I did my bottom work there last year and it was great. Across the street from Humphreys by the roundabout.

https://www.koehlerkraft.com

[fugujohn]

Good Morning, I work in Bremerton, keep my primary residence in New London, and own a Westsail 32 which is also in CT. If I had my druthers, I would have my boat in the PNW. Some real artisans up on Whidbey Island, and if you plan on doing any kind of Westpac sailing, you don't have to deal with the canal.

[Student_Driver]

Hi All, It's been several years and things have changes since the OP started this thread but the same question is on my mind today. When I refit my boat, I think she may need over 500 hours of labor. If I can save $20/Hr or more relative to local rates, then it may make sense to consider the alternatives. Most of the work is not highly skilled.

I can work from my cell phone and can take the boat anywhere above 0N and between 72W and 60E for several months. Have heard about the Caribbean and mid-atlantic and Maine but have no idea how much the labor rates vary. If I were to go to the Caribbean or NC would the rates be less than they tend to be around New England.

[Student_Driver]

Parenthetically, I grew up in Jamaica and speak fluent spanish and passable french. Am accustom to Island Time timetables. Understand that there' no free lunch and that I'll need to be very involved and get advise from third party consultants.

[zboss]

Oasis boatyard and marina in Saint Augustine. 30 minutes to JAX.

DIY and also vendor work available. It is NOT the cheapest vendor work - in fact they charge a premium but the work is done impeccably. Everyone is sir or ma'am. Affordable haul out and you are right in the middle of the action in an affordable living city. Being in the navy you will respect that they keep their yard super clean. Everyday all the employees walk the entire yard picking up trash and debris and cleaning all work areas. Everything is tidily put away at the end of the day.They expect the same of their DIY people. Their machine shop is so clean you can eat off the floor. I'm not kidding. They only work Monday through Thursday from sun up to well after sun down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrtncZrLlXk

[mvweebles]

I'm having a major restoration/refit done in Ensenada, 75 miles south of San Diego. The large yard there - Baja Naval - advertises around $30 USD/hr but I'm not sure that's accurate. I'm using a small team and a commercial yard. Boat will eventually end up in Florida so I checked around the Tampa area first but there were no deals that I found on labor, even for bulk work like you're talking about. From memory, rates were not much less than what I paid in Berkeley (San Francisco Bay) before headed to Ensenada.

If I were on the east coast, I'd check out Isla Mujeres. Have heard some decent work there. Caution of having work done outside US is getting materials. Mexico has a 16% VAT so make sure you bring stuff with you.

Good luck

Peter

[alaskanviking]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Deltaville VA is a preferred economical refit spot on the east coast. A number of yards there, I think all of them DIY but with reasonably priced experienced labor on tap for when you need it. Deltaville is bracketed by two sizeable Navy bases, Norfolk and Patuxent.

It's been a while since I posted last. Thank you everyone for all this data. It helps all of us. Really helps make decisions for boaters coming up due for yard work.

I ended up getting orders to little creek virginia. Trucked to boat over. Unfortunately I got here in Feb last year right when COVID really started closing stuff down, so I haven't really been able to explore much. Boat is still at cobbs boat yard. Lot of financial snafus with the navy due to late or incorrect payments for the move. Now it's a weather issue. Lol I had time and good weather this summer but no money, then money, good weather and no time, and now I have no money and bad weather lol. It is what it is and I'll be in the water end of February beginning of March depending on the weather window.

I plan to explore Deltaville VA, Oriental NC, and up and down the east coast while I have this opportunity to see this side and figure out where I want to officially retire. I retire early 2023 but will have school after. Looks like Bellingham WA and Norfolk VA both have engineering schools and a close proximity to fairly inexpensive marinas. Still looking though as if the last 2 years taught me anything, it's to stay flexible and adapt.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by alaskanviking

It's been a while since I posted last. Thank you everyone for all this data. It helps all of us. Really helps make decisions for boaters coming up due for yard work.

I ended up getting orders to little creek virginia. Trucked to boat over. Unfortunately I got here in Feb last year right when COVID really started closing stuff down, so I haven't really been able to explore much. Boat is still at cobbs boat yard. Lot of financial snafus with the navy due to late or incorrect payments for the move. Now it's a weather issue. Lol I had time and good weather this summer but no money, then money, good weather and no time, and now I have no money and bad weather lol. It is what it is and I'll be in the water end of February beginning of March depending on the weather window.

I plan to explore Deltaville VA, Oriental NC, and up and down the east coast while I have this opportunity to see this side and figure out where I want to officially retire. I retire early 2023 but will have school after. Looks like Bellingham WA and Norfolk VA both have engineering schools and a close proximity to fairly inexpensive marinas. Still looking though as if the last 2 years taught me anything, it's to stay flexible and adapt.

Bellingham it's a no brainer. Year round sailing and thousands of miles of shoreline snow skiing in the morning and an afternoon sail in winter

[alaskanviking]

A note on the San Diego boatyards. 2019 I came off of deployment and went into Driscoll's boat yard Mission Bay. I highly recommend going elsewhere. Here's the situation in So Cal, San Diego specifically. I've been hearing similar stories from LA area

Driscoll's is using a 3rd party for most boat work. Thier offices are on site. Driscoll's is only doing bottom paint essentially.

Here's the problem. Unless driscoll's workers are doing the work you pay for the lay day. You pay 3rd parties through driscoll's so nothing really changes there except driscoll's gets to charge you a bunch more for lay days. 3rd parties give a you quotes in man hours but that's for 1 guy. When they give you 2 guys the price changes and you get a surprise on the bill.

Problem #2, almost all the boatyards in San Diego are catering to either the sail race boats or the commercial party fishing boats. Regular boaters kinda get the short stick on this as the 3rd parties give the big guys they're full attention while you get stuck waiting and paying lay days.

Problem #3, if 3rd party does something sue-able, you can't sue the boatyard. The 3rd party ceases to exist, and reopens as something new. The welding shop at the driscoll's has been a couple entities according to their workers.

I could have a new engine for the price I paid for laydays!

Just a warning. I haven't been to all the boat yards in San Diego, but have been hearing a lot of similar stories for So Cal after I got back to my dock. Makes sense really, prices get higher, and regulations increase, only boaters that can afford the yard there is the ones with deep pockets. Im happy I got out of San Diego when I did, the cost of living there has skyrocketed to ridiculousness.

When I shipped the boat I hauled at the old knight and carver yard, now owned by Marine group. It was $1800 to pull the mast and load the truck. I didn't do any work there so I can't say how they are. However marine group doesn't allow you to work on your boat so it was a mute point anyway.

[alaskanviking]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Bellingham it's a no brainer. Year round sailing and thousands of miles of shoreline snow skiing in the morning and an afternoon sail in winter

I looked I meant Bremerton. Everett was another possibility but higher price. The community college in both have a deal with the University of Washington. They let you take the engineering pre-reqs at the community college - calculus, physics ect, and then you take the UW engineering courses at the community college. Bremerton is especially apealling as the city marina allows live-a-board's and pretty low cost. It's within a bike ride of the college and the ferry to Seattle. Port Townsend is a couple hour drive to the north.

In norfolk there are several marinas although not as cheap as washington. Cost of living in Virginia and NC seems a lot lower. ODU university has a good Engineering program. There is a lot more boating stuff in the east coast than I thought.

Still looking at options and staying flexible.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by alaskanviking

I looked I meant Bremerton. Everett was another possibility but higher price. The community college in both have a deal with the University of Washington. They let you take the engineering pre-reqs at the community college - calculus, physics ect, and then you take the UW engineering courses at the community college. Bremerton is especially apealling as the city marina allows live-a-board's and pretty low cost. It's within a bike ride of the college and the ferry to Seattle. Port Townsend is a couple hour drive to the north.

In norfolk there are several marinas although not as cheap as washington. Cost of living in Virginia and NC seems a lot lower. ODU university has a good Engineering program. There is a lot more boating stuff in the east coast than I thought.

Still looking at options and staying flexible.

The Bremerton marina in Bremerton is next to the Seattle ferry and always accepting liveaboards but so is the Bremerton marina in port orchard

[alaskanviking]

A note on Little creek/Norfolk boat yards, and marine services.

Very different than California. San Diego had a nice boating yellow pages book with all the marine services. In addition to that it's very easy to google anything you need and find all the chandleries or marine services your looking for specifically.

As an example the only place that does stainless arches in the area is next door to cobbs. However very limited website, pictures and examples are mostly aluminum fishing/ski towers and partly because of the pandemic I don't hear much about them. But they're hopping. I seen them busting thier butts all year on stuff, so they are obviously getting the business.

Little creek seems to be more independents and smaller ma and pop type services/stores. There is a west marine but it's just as expensive as San Diego. The boat yard and the small local chandlery has everyone's business cards for boat services and contractors in the area. Boat yard store is limited. Much more of a who you know type of environment. Not a lot of online presence, which I wasn't expecting. the people I have found have a much better customer service and repor with me, it takes me longer to trust them before scheduling work. I don't get the feeling they're trying to scam me or buckle and dime me like I did in San Diego. Since I usually put a lot of work researching and checking out a place this is throwing me off my game a bit. It makes it harder to shop around or compare.

Prices for work may be high. I've been doing my own work since I got here. Not ready for some of the bigger stuff on my list. I did get a quote from cobbs boatyard to put back on my teak rub rails. They qouted me $2500. I was quoted $1500 in San Diego. I will be putting them back on myself if the weather works in my favor. Haven't had the funds or opportunity to try to get any other work done yet.

Marinas seem very opposed to you doing any boat work other than interior or basic maintenance. I've been spoiled and got away with a lot of crap at the military marina in San Diego, so this will be a big change. Before I would see an issue and just go fix it or whatever it needed, no biggie. Looks like I'll have to plan out stuff and schedule boat yard dock time.

I found they have winter storage rates at the boatyard during the winter. For me it's roughly $300 a month from November to March 1st. Looks like that's when everyone does they're boat work. Weather has been rainy and cold this year but the last several have been nice here. Unfortunately I'm trying to paint my cove stripe so the rain isn't helping my get in the water.