Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-07-2021, 17:58   #1
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in California working on the farm
Boat: Westsail 28 and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,744
Images: 5
Westsail 28 refit

Thought I would share my ongoing refit of my Westsail 28. It is 44 years old and as you can expect, the systems have seen better days. The water tank was 75 gallons and of aluminum. As a lot of factories do, it was set into place when the hull had yet to receive the deck and cabin. then the molded dinette was glassed over top of it. So I had to cut the dinette out with a sawzall and cut the old leaking tank out in 3 pieces in order to remove it. You can imagine the mess.


__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2021, 18:02   #2
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in California working on the farm
Boat: Westsail 28 and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,744
Images: 5
Re: Westsail 28 refit



__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2021, 22:08   #3
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in California working on the farm
Boat: Westsail 28 and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,744
Images: 5
Re: Westsail 28 refit

Back together...laminated and gelcoat.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Dinette install1.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	89.1 KB
ID:	242234   Click image for larger version

Name:	Gelcoat finished2.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	93.1 KB
ID:	242235  

__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2021, 05:14   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Kennebunk ME
Boat: Owner built 60’ Aluminum Expedition Yacht.
Posts: 999
Re: Westsail 28 refit

There are some excellent videos on welding by Jody at Welding Tios and Tricks which will help improve the quality of the welds shown in the photo.
Jody has guests who are really talented and the camera shots are beautiful.
He sells small items to help offset the production costs. I know several professional boatbuilders who by things from him to help him out. Enjoy.
The manatee crew.
Manateeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2021, 05:23   #5
Registered User
 
LittleWing77's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,076
Re: Westsail 28 refit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Back together...laminated and gelcoat.
Looks GORgeous, Celestial!

What a tremendous amount of work. Well done.

My one question: you didn't put/aren't going to put that old aluminium one back in, are you?

If not, what did you use as a replacement?
(I can see what looks like an unconnected tank-fill inlet-pipe in the last picture, upper right-hand corner...)

Warmly,
LittleWing77
LittleWing77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2021, 05:25   #6
Registered User
 
Spot's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Minnesota, USA
Boat: 21' trailer sailor & 8' sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,125
Re: Westsail 28 refit

Thanks for the refit thread!
I am not sure if I am tracking 100%- did you remove the 1 aluminum tank and replace with 2 homemade stainless ones?
I admire the re-install and gel coat too.
__________________
Big dreams, small boats...
Spot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2021, 07:52   #7
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in California working on the farm
Boat: Westsail 28 and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,744
Images: 5
Re: Westsail 28 refit

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleWing77 View Post
Looks GORgeous, Celestial!

What a tremendous amount of work. Well done.

My one question: you didn't put/aren't going to put that old aluminium one back in, are you?

If not, what did you use as a replacement?
(I can see what looks like an unconnected tank-fill inlet-pipe in the last picture, upper right-hand corner...)

Warmly,
LittleWing77
The original one piece was aluminum at 77 gallons and it was a monster. Over the years, it had rotted out the lowest corner. The inside of the tank had stalagtites of aluminum oxide. Not something that you should be drinking. I designed and fabricated two Stainless tanks, as to get them down the companion way. It was a tight fit but gave me the advantage to lam in another "semi" bulkhead between the tanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Manateeman View Post
There are some excellent videos on welding by Jody at Welding Tios and Tricks which will help improve the quality of the welds shown in the photo.
Jody has guests who are really talented and the camera shots are beautiful.
He sells small items to help offset the production costs. I know several professional boatbuilders who by things from him to help him out. Enjoy.
The manatee crew.
The close up you see is the cast threaded bung to the stainless sheet. They are different thicknesses and to a lesser degree different stainless steels. I used 316 rod and had to focus the lens more on the cast as it would like to suck up the heat. Then as it got rolling, I could "push" the puddle while adding rod. It's a little tricky to get "dimes" doing this but the field welds are dimes.

It's been difficult over the years to get decent Argon gas. I use to buy ultra pure but it seems it isn't any better than regular Argon these days. You have to be sure everything is spotless clean and if, by misfortune, the Tungsten does a nose dive, you have to immediately stop and clean everything and redress the Tungsten. Plus I only weld a few inches at a time, every 6 or so inches as not to deform the sheet. I learned that building steel boats. Glad those days are over.
For your viewing pleasure, I have attached the welds in the field.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot View Post
Thanks for the refit thread!
I am not sure if I am tracking 100%- did you remove the 1 aluminum tank and replace with 2 homemade stainless ones?
I admire the re-install and gel coat too.
Yes, you are correct. Here is a fun fact...there is more work in matching the gelcoat and fairing in hours, then there was building the tanks themselves.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	welds.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	80.9 KB
ID:	242334  
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2021, 13:38   #8
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in California working on the farm
Boat: Westsail 28 and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,744
Images: 5
Re: Westsail 28 refit

Then there is the fuel tank. It was aluminum and it too have rotted out in the lowest corner. Diesel fuel tanks are especially susceptible to corrosion if not only for the fact that when a diesel runs for any length of time, it heats the diesel oil going through the engine and then returns warm to the fuel tank. Not being a true closed system (the tank is vented), the tank becomes warm and when the engine is shut off, water condensation forms at the top of the tank and drops into the diesel oil. This then accumulates at the bottom of the tank.

So what I did here was to make the new tank out of 1/8" 5052 aluminum sheet. here is the old tank...


I had to cut away a lot of the settee...


At least it came out in one piece. Basically it was 2 triangle ends and 3 sheets. It was not formed to the contour camber of the hull. So I saw an opportunity here to do that to 1) increase the size by a few gallons and 2) make it consistent allowing me to brace it off the hull uniformly so no aluminum touches the fiberglass allowing standing water to do it's evil. I will touch on further improvements to tank design as I post more.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	WS3.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	418.3 KB
ID:	242341   Click image for larger version

Name:	diesel tank1.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	89.6 KB
ID:	242342  

Click image for larger version

Name:	diesel tank removal.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	85.6 KB
ID:	242343   Click image for larger version

Name:	diesel tank4.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	94.6 KB
ID:	242344  

Click image for larger version

Name:	diesel tank5.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	99.0 KB
ID:	242345  
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2021, 13:49   #9
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in California working on the farm
Boat: Westsail 28 and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,744
Images: 5
Re: Westsail 28 refit

I used foam construction board to make my patterns for the ends. Then I used a brake for the 90 degree on the sheet, rolled a rough curve and slowly worked the sheeting to conform to the compound curvature. The 2 baffles I added inside the tank had a two-fold job. 1) Of course is to control sloshing. 2) Is to allow bracing and stiffening when forming the curve and not get a twist in the tank itself.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Cut out settee for tank.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	73.6 KB
ID:	242347   Click image for larger version

Name:	Diesel Tank sheet1.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	103.3 KB
ID:	242348  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Diesel Tank formed.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	84.9 KB
ID:	242349  
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-07-2021, 17:49   #10
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in California working on the farm
Boat: Westsail 28 and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,744
Images: 5
Re: Westsail 28 refit

Some of the features and finishing touches on Irish Rose...


The forth picture shows a tank level guage which can be read by simply lifting up the cushion and the port labelled suction is a angled fitting with a tube that goes down to within a 1/4" of the bottom corner of the tank where the water tends to accumulate. It normally will have a plug there and when it becomes time to check for water accumulation, you take the plug out, thread in a barb, take a squeeze bulb and pump a few times to evacuate any water that may have settled there.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Tank install2.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	86.3 KB
ID:	242494   Click image for larger version

Name:	tank install3.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	71.1 KB
ID:	242495  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Gelcoat finished1.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	80.8 KB
ID:	242496   Click image for larger version

Name:	gauge for fuel tank.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	91.3 KB
ID:	242497  

Click image for larger version

Name:	tank install4.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	59.9 KB
ID:	242498  
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-07-2021, 19:52   #11
Registered User
 
Spot's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Minnesota, USA
Boat: 21' trailer sailor & 8' sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,125
Re: Westsail 28 refit

Celestial, good thread except now I want nice shiny tanks on MY boat...

What sort of welding tech (amps and process) are you using for the alu and stainless?
__________________
Big dreams, small boats...
Spot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-07-2021, 21:47   #12
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in California working on the farm
Boat: Westsail 28 and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,744
Images: 5
Re: Westsail 28 refit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot View Post
Celestial, good thread except now I want nice shiny tanks on MY boat...

What sort of welding tech (amps and process) are you using for the alu and stainless?

These welds are TIG welds. The gas for both Stainless Steel and Aluminum is Argon. Max range for the Aluminum is around 125 amps on AC. It is critically important to have clean metal. I hand wire brush and then acetone all the seams. A pulser is also used to take the strain off welder but csan be tricky setting that up.
The Stainless is 14 gauge and I believe I used a max amperage of 75 amps and throttled down with the peddle. Pulse also used.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-07-2021, 05:41   #13
Registered User
 
LittleWing77's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,076
Re: Westsail 28 refit

Wow, Celestial!

Now I wanna learn to weld!

By the way - nice car! Looks like you have two projects... or have you already refit that classic?

Fair winds,
LittleWing77
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Diesel Tank sheet1.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	103.3 KB
ID:	242518  
LittleWing77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-07-2021, 08:33   #14
Registered User
 
Spot's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Minnesota, USA
Boat: 21' trailer sailor & 8' sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,125
Re: Westsail 28 refit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
These welds are TIG welds. The gas for both Stainless Steel and Aluminum is Argon. Max range for the Aluminum is around 125 amps on AC. It is critically important to have clean metal. I hand wire brush and then acetone all the seams. A pulser is also used to take the strain off welder but csan be tricky setting that up.
The Stainless is 14 gauge and I believe I used a max amperage of 75 amps and throttled down with the peddle. Pulse also used.
Thanks for the details. Someday I'd like to get back into welding and learn to do things with stainless and aluminum. My background is wire feed and stick on mild steel. Currently I only have at-home access to DC stick but I also do not have many projects that need welding so it's not a limitation per se. I can have small things done with TIG at work.
__________________
Big dreams, small boats...
Spot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-07-2021, 09:35   #15
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in California working on the farm
Boat: Westsail 28 and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,744
Images: 5
Re: Westsail 28 refit

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleWing77 View Post
Wow, Celestial!

Now I wanna learn to weld!

By the way - nice car! Looks like you have two projects... or have you already refit that classic?

Fair winds,
LittleWing77
I said goodbye to the 60 T-bird a month ago after the 4 year complete restore. Then it just sat and sat and sat. We bought a 1943 fixer ranch and that takes up most of my time. In the two years I've been here. I have built 2 pastures for the horses. No small feat when you consider the ground is solid clay. Converted a container into a barn (Barntainer). Built a shop, a she shed for sewing, a dozen gates, the Westsail 28 and keeping various farm equipment running.

Welding is fun and frustrating at the same time. And...it's an art too. Attached is a fish that my friend in Santa Cruz did. He is a tradesman like myself as well as a musician and metal artist. He has had his work in the Monterey Bay Aquarium.
I'm sure a local college near you could offer welding courses. They usually start with basic welding theory and in the second course< introduction to TIG welding.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot View Post
Thanks for the details. Someday I'd like to get back into welding and learn to do things with stainless and aluminum. My background is wire feed and stick on mild steel. Currently I only have at-home access to DC stick but I also do not have many projects that need welding so it's not a limitation per se. I can have small things done with TIG at work.
Hey Spot...I started out welding when I got the hair brain idea to build a steel boat. I did it by the seat of my pants with an AC/DC stick welder. I still have the scars. Maybe get a couple of lessons at work and see where it takes you.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Fish.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	95.6 KB
ID:	242535   Click image for larger version

Name:	welding tank.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	114.2 KB
ID:	242536  

__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
refit, sail

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Westsail 32 1974 SV Sundowner total refit (LOW Price!) SundownerSailsA Boats For Sale and Wanted 7 31-03-2017 04:18
Westsail Boats cburger Monohull Sailboats 17 22-03-2011 07:29
Westsail Rendezvous Heron Cruising News & Events 7 26-05-2007 05:59
westsail vs. force 50 froggman180 Monohull Sailboats 7 15-07-2006 05:43

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:05.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.