West System Epoxy help

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Flyingriki

Note to West Haters....the Gougeon Brothers have been building beautiful boats for years with their products.
https://www.westsystem.com/gbi-history/
When you can match that record maybe we'll listen to you. In the meantime, there are several other brands of Epoxy that also work well but none have the terrific range of products and instructional data available for boat building and repair as West.
Flame on....

WEST is awesome. Not only do they have great products, all the accessories, and a very useful range... they also provide the best epoxy literature. I wouldn't hesitate to use WEST products... and have on occasion.

But we're sailors, and most sailors are cheap.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by john61ct

First page of the PDF instruction sheet for 105 hardener

Did you follow the links I gave you John. Here is the pdf below found by following the logical steps in my post above.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by Cadence

You mean you're resorting to, "When all else fails read the instructions.".

As below.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

BS...........WHERE

The first page of your link.

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Did you follow the links I gave you John. Here is the pdf below found by following the logical steps in my post above.

Man, you are a special case huh? Yes, thats the one. And on page 1 it says "Do not attempt to control the cure time by altering the hardener ratio." In bold. On page one. Of your link.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

WEST is awesome. Not only do they have great products, all the accessories, and a very useful range... they also provide the best epoxy literature. I wouldn't hesitate to use WEST products... and have on occasion.

But we're sailors, and most sailors are cheap.

Exactly. The epoxy is is pricey, but the fillers are out this world compared to buying actual wood flour, fumed silica and glass fibres.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Did you follow the links I gave you John. Here is the pdf below found by following the logical steps in my post above.

You said BS and asked where?

I pointed the quotation's source out to you.

I hope you don't still think it's OK to improvise with this product's ratios?

I have no idea what else you are on about otherwise, what further point you're trying to make.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by chris95040

The first page of your link.




Man, you are a special case huh? Yes, thats the one. And on page 1 it says "Do not attempt to control the cure time by altering the hardener ratio." In bold. On page one. Of your link.

Originally Posted by john61ct

You said BS and asked where?

I pointed the quotation's source out to you.

I hope you don't still think it's OK to improvise with this product's ratios?

I have no idea what else you are on about otherwise, what further point you're trying to make.

I see it now, in the column under the 207 and 209 special class of hardners, the ones that mix at 3-1 not 5-1. You would have to admit if your using 105 and the 206 hardners and reading those instructions you would not associate that comment to the 206 hardners. If it were ment to be read for all hardners it should precede the section.

I'm not trying to make a point. I am defending myself against a few keyboard warrior princess' for what.....

I admitted in my original post that I went off the recommended mix ratio to experiment to try to fix the rapid curing problem that I had. However it turns out the problem was, I was mixing it in the wrong shaped container. The problem had nothing to do with mixing ratios, but you guys focused on this point, nothing to do with the solution, no attempt to assist, just saw an opportunity to try to make yourself feel better.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

I see it now, in the column under the 207 and 209 special class of hardners, the ones that mix at 3-1 not 5-1. You would have to admit if your using 105 and the 206 hardners and reading those instructions you would not associate that comment to the 206 hardners. If it were ment to be read for all hardners it should precede the section.

I'm not trying to make a point. I am defending myself against a few keyboard warrior princess' for what.....

I admitted in my original post that I went off the recommended mix ratio to experiment to try to fix the rapid curing problem that I had. However it turns out the problem was, I was mixing it in the wrong shaped container. The problem had nothing to do with mixing ratios, but you guys focused on this point, nothing to do with the solution, no attempt to assist, just saw an opportunity to try to make yourself feel better.

Nah dude, you just kept repeatedly denying what was written right on the first page of the link you were posting. It was weird.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

...the problem was, I was mixing it in the wrong shaped container...

No, that was not the problem at all. You mixed too large a batch and used the wrong hardener for the ambient temperature. Then you mixed the wrong ratio of resin to hardener to try to make up for these errors.

One does not mix in wide, flat containers, as that would make it very difficult to thoroughly incorporate the ingredients. You use a normal cup-shaped container for mixing thoroughly. And you may then spread it out to avoid premature exotherm.

[Wotname]

@DaveS, well you have received good advice (mainly) so far so allow me to suggest another solution.

Use up your remaining West products and then switch to Bote Cote (made on the Gold Coast). I have used many different brands of epoxy over the years (100 of litres) and I find Bote Cote the easiest and nicest to use; not necessarily the cheapest but certainly easy and forgiving. Way less blush, smells nice and supposedly less sensitising etc. Several different hardeners including an accelerator (if needed) and a reactive thinner. Good local product support.

I have no interest in the company and I now use a local Tassie product (cheaper) but I don't believe you can go wrong with Bote Cote.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

I see it now, in the column under the 207 and 209 special class of hardners, the ones that mix at 3-1 not 5-1. You would have to admit if your using 105 and the 206 hardners and reading those instructions you would not associate that comment to the 206 hardners. If it were ment to be read for all hardners it should precede the section.

I'm not trying to make a point. I am defending myself against a few keyboard warrior princess' for what.....

I admitted in my original post that I went off the recommended mix ratio to experiment to try to fix the rapid curing problem that I had. However it turns out the problem was, I was mixing it in the wrong shaped container. The problem had nothing to do with mixing ratios, but you guys focused on this point, nothing to do with the solution, no attempt to assist, just saw an opportunity to try to make yourself feel better.

The stuff works, when you mix it, and use it, correctly. That was the only point anyone was trying to make. I think you have that figured out now.

[SuW]

Goodness! Who knew that discussing epoxy brands would get so heated?
I usually avoid such topics as I see them as therapeutic male bonding.
Get a grip, people!

I'm not a "WS hater". Perhaps I'm doing it wrong.

[muskrat45335]

Don't let those guys beat you up. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Believe me; if there is a mistake to be made with epoxy, I've made it. The stuff is stupidly cantankerous (sp?). I've had problems with strange contaminations, heat, humidity. I even had a problem with barometric pressure!! I laid a nice section of cloth on bare wood just before a thunderstorm came through (I was indoors!) and the low pressure system sucked air bubbles out of the wood into my fiberglass! Where is THAT in the manual?! lol

Glad the pans worked for you. I always use those thick, deep paper plates. Much cheaper, imo. Oh, and I mix it in a cup first then pour it in the plate. I think I remember you saying something about having a hard time getting to everything in the pan.

For me, I do a lot of sanding so I save my very fine dust and use that as a filler. My 'peanut butter' actually looks like peanut butter. I also use a thinner mix that we call 'apple sauce.' I use that wen I'm gluing things together. It's a compromise because pure epoxy runs off and peanut butter doesn't penetrate enough.

It sounds like you got the project under control. Congrats!!!

M

[overthehorizon]

The West System pumps are very accurate for measuring the proper amounts. Pouring into cups is much more difficult to be as exact as necessary. There is a good video on You Tube, search for "How to measure two part anything" . Keep the glues cool and mix in the shade.

[Mike Banks]

By all means use the WEST system filler for structural jobs.

I use Cabosil for that sort of thing--and it also mixes with slow epoxy to make a strong glue.

However--if you want cheap--as in free--find some floor maintenance guy with a sanding machine,. These things produce high quality wood flour by the bushel--and it is fine filler for shaping out and filling voids. Because it is extremely dry and is fine cellulose dust--it will explode when mixed with moving air--so it needs to be mixed carefully.

I use the sanding dust from new hardwood flooring for preference--but softwood is fine too. Free for removal is a lot better than twenty bucks a kilo or more.

With floors painted previously there may be problems--so be selective in what you accept for use with resins. I just dump anything in which I can find paint dust. The dust from coarse paper works just as well or better than that fine flour from a finishing sand.

One guy gave me three or four bin-liners full of clean hardwood sandings. Lasted me AGES--and I gave some of it away to friends too. All it cost was a slab of beer.

Because the wood absorbs the resin readily, one needs to use a slow cure mix of epoxy.

The cured mix may be slightly porous--so after sanding to a final finish, another light coat of unfilled resin should be applied as a sealer, then covered with peel-ply, which is rolled on with a disposable paint roller. It is peeled off and discarded before any painting.

I know I am a cheapskate --and LOVING it. (Thanks Max)