Welding at Sea

[twoblocktom]

Tom's five rules to welding:

1. Assume a comfortable position.

2. Rule 1 is a fantasy, you should just assume you are in a comfortable position.

3. Your rod will not lite off the first time you strike it.

4. If your hood is not covering your eyes, rule 3 dose not apply.

5. Your lead will always be hung up on something.

That's what I've learned in thirty-five years!

[hpeer]

Some thoughts:

Brent Swain would be a good resource, he wrote a book on steel boat construction and has many good recommendations. Very pragmatic guy.

Origamiboats: The Art of Frameless Steel Boatbuilding - Home

Origamiboats: The Art of Frameless Steel Boatbuilding - Product Page

There are some alternator welding outfits out there but I can't recommend one. Google alternator welder.

Premier Power Welder high-frequency on board welders, high-amp alternators, charging systems, Ready Welder, trail, off-road

Here is a thread on the alternator/welder topic at another site:
Alternator/Welder - Jeep Wrangler Forum

Depending upon what you want to be able to do you might be satisfied with a small 110VAC inverter stick welder. They are very small and light and can do a lot.
Harbor Freight $150 or thereabouts.
80 Amp Inverter Arc Welder

And a review:

harbor freight 80 amp inverter arc stick welder - YouTube

[capngeo]

For aluminum welding at sea, I'd use a big tub of epoxy! Do the welding back on land!

[twoblocktom]

Mr. B
In your 2nd post you said you were a boilermaker ( in plane English )
Now you say your not.
We know your not a one pony show but being a boilermaker is like being a convect, you is or you aint.
And if you is, you cant wait to get out!!!
I've been trying for 35 years. Haha
May the windmills put us out of business instead of old age.

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by Mr B

No Mate, Its a thing of the past, Very few of us around these days, all retired or dead,
My course was ended in 1964, Yep. Im an old fart hahahahaha

The end of steam and electric welding mainly finished us off, New machinery made chains, etc,
Welding killed off riveting,
Boilermakers are just one part of it,
You can electric weld it faster than forging and forge welding could,

The mighty pies, I like you, Hahahaha

Well the moment I saw the word "engineer" in your post, I was worried.
The only engineer I ever met who could weld worth a darn was my old man, but he was a shipyard boilermaker before he became a metallurgical eng. Most of my own experience is that the engineers are guys in white hats who like to go around screwing with your welder because they think they know better! Actually, learned a lot working in inspection for my old man.

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by twoblocktom

This thread has opened my eyes to getting advice on the Internet. Wow !!!
Yes you can weld paperclips with a watch battery and you can also weld with a torch and a coat hanger ( at least you could when they made them quality wire)
You cam also " heat and beat" your repairs.
BUT
For the latest methods and best practices for seaworthy repairs to a boat built out of corten steel, chose your advisers carefully!
Quoting wikipedia:
(Using weathering steel in construction presents several challenges. Ensuring that weld-points weather at the same rate as the other materials may require special welding techniques or material)

Hence the suggestion of lo-hi (7018).

[NeptunesTrident]

I really do not understand building a boat out of cortin steel. It really don't hold up well if painted. Seems paint on weathering steel promotes the corrosion process. And I would not want my any steel boat in salt water without paint. Nor freshwater for that matter.

That said, weathering steel is a A-500 grade steel. 6011, 6010, 7010, 7014, 7018 or any other good structural steel rod will work. The key to welding any steel is the operator. Not the filler metal.

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Some thoughts:

Brent Swain would be a good resource, he wrote a book on steel boat construction and has many good recommendations. Very pragmatic guy.

Origamiboats: The Art of Frameless Steel Boatbuilding - Home

Origamiboats: The Art of Frameless Steel Boatbuilding - Product Page

Originally Posted by twoblocktom

This thread has opened my eyes to getting advice on the Internet. Wow !!!

It's a nightmare! Usually I'm smart enough, these days, to avoid weld-related topics because there's always someone who is out in left field & wants to argue about it. Brent Swain's a good example of this; been kicked of of several forums, had everyone from welders to engineers & naval architects point out his flaws, but you still get his followers - "swainies" like hpeer - trying to promote his foolishness on various forums. Here's an example of his work & you folk decide for yourselves if he should be giving welding advice(see post #268):
Origami steel yacht construction - Page 18 - Boat Design Forums

The responses to the OP should be to help him out, not lead him further astray.
I've given my advice, so I'll move on & hope the silliness is dealt with by others.

[NeptunesTrident]

Ewwwww!

Your telling me he made money on his book/movie??
How much?

However, its ok for paper.

[Pauls]

Some simple advice for having welding capability on a boat. Buy a welding generator from Zena. It US made, 150 amps, continuous rated. Mount it on your engine. Use it as a high output alternator, it will work great. When you need to weld, connect it to the welding regulator, hook up the welding cables, and go.

I bought one of their units about 3 years ago and am using it to build my 42' cutter. It's seen a lot of use and still welds great. When I'm done with the welding it will serve as my high output alternator, and the welding cables will go in the tool box, ready when I need them.

These alternator welders really work well. I've never used a better welder, and I've known others who have used them voice the same opinion.

[twoblocktom]

Originally Posted by NeptunesTrident

I really do not understand building a boat out of cortin steel. It really don't hold up well if painted. Seems paint on weathering steel promotes the corrosion process. And I would not want my any steel boat in salt water without paint. Nor freshwater for that matter.

That said, weathering steel is a A-500 grade steel. 6011, 6010, 7010, 7014, 7018 or any other good structural steel rod will work. The key to welding any steel is the
operator. Not the filler metal.

Basically true....
6011- farmers love it. it will weld through rust, mud, manure, you name it. What they like most is you can weld vertical down. No need to fight gravity.

6010- pipe welders love it for the stringer pass in pipe ( first pass ) that is run down-hand but they finish the weld with E7018 up hand.

7010-basically a 70,000 tensile strength version of 6010.

7014- is a general application electrode that I personally have not seen but for school

E7018 is a low hydrogen 70,000 tensile strength electrode. It is generally applied with up hand progression. It must be kept dry ( the plastic top is not good enough)
or baked out. If dry it is very good at preventing hydrogen cracking and stress corrosion cracking.

This is all too much for the beginner to need to know.
7018 is a little harder to master but the finished product will be more sound due to the lack of hydrogen trapped within.

[Pauls]

Regards Corten steel, Tom Colvin, who created over 200 steel boat designs, owned boatyards that built steel boats, and sailed on steel and aluminum boats for decades, built his own Gazelle out of Corten and specified Corten on the plans. The purpose for using Corten on boats has nothing to do with corrosion resistance, because in salt water it still corrodes badly, hell it's still steel. The reason for using Corten is strength. Look it up, it's a member of the high strenght low alloy steels, and can be useful for reducing weight in the hull. It's harder than the typical A36, stronger, a little more demanding to work with.

[perchance]

Originally Posted by Mr B

They come in a plastic container and you just put the lid back on.

For your information, I am a professional Welder with 49 years experience,
I weld in all mediums 100 % XRAY quality. Including Forge welding,
I am on LLoyds register of shipping surveyors, I can weld any where in the world,
I am a also Certificated pressure Welder

This man is a novice, He has to start some where, And thats what I am doing, helping a novice,

The low hydrogen electrodes were purely an example to those that can weld, describing the capability of the machine and the amperage it puts out,

It is better to have people think you are a fool, than open your mouth and prove it,

What abut those 110v wire feed suitcase welders? I realise the plate thickness they can handle is limited but I think you can get flux core wire and do away with the need for a shielding gas. I think most steel boats are built from 10 guage steel with thicker plate near the bilges.

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by NeptunesTrident

I really do not understand building a boat out of cortin steel. It really don't hold up well if painted. Seems paint on weathering steel promotes the corrosion process. And I would not want my any steel boat in salt water without paint. Nor freshwater for that matter.

That said, weathering steel is a A-500 grade steel. 6011, 6010, 7010, 7014, 7018 or any other good structural steel rod will work. The key to welding any steel is the operator. Not the filler metal.

No, we're talking about COR-TEN which is A-242, a HSLA(High Strength, Low Alloy) steel. There is a family of HSLA steels, the most popular - for marine applications like boatbuilding - is A-242, as has been mentioned for it's strength moreso than it's corrosion -resistance properties. There is, now, COR-TEN B, which is the ASTM A-588, but not just any electrode is acceptable for welding HSLA steels.
Michael Kasten has some very good info. on his site for the OP & others, here:

Kasten Marine Design - Custom sailing and motor yacht design.
(See "Articles")

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by twoblocktom

Tom's five rules to welding:

1. Assume a comfortable position.

2. Rule 1 is a fantasy, you should just assume you are in a comfortable position.

3. Your rod will not lite off the first time you strike it.

4. If your hood is not covering your eyes, rule 3 dose not apply.

5. Your lead will always be hung up on something.

That's what I've learned in thirty-five years!

ahhh.... i like those rules... a real welder speaks!