WATER TANKS - What to do, what to do?

[flyingfin]

What do you mean when you say the copper water pipes are "corroded". Are there pinholes, leaks,,,,,,,,or is the pipe green on the outside. Others are correct, start with flushing the tanks and lines, move on to decontam with ammonia, then flush, then decontam with bleach,,,,and not laundry bleach but swimming pool bleach, flush, flush, flush.

[Hoodsail]

Not certain why western Australian gov’t didn’t like filters to remove pathogenic bacteria. Been scooping up stream water for yrs when backpacking and forcing it thru a 0.22 micron filter to drink on the spot. As to boat plumbing, can recommend 1/2 inch pex tubing (red 4 hot, blue 4 cold) with press on plastic (shark bite) connectors. Can be easily disconnected/reconnected by hand but must be able to use some force so close quarters connections with tight access are a challenge. Shark bite connectors are not cheap here in the USA. Have an 86 gal water tank molded into the bow under the V berth that I will be coating this spring. Multiple sources for drinking water compatible coatings on the internet. Sourced canister filters and water pump from RV supplier.

[sanibel sailor]

DO NOT MIX BLEACH AND AMMONIA!!!!!!

Creates phosgene, a poison gas and will kill you.

[Pcpete]

Here’s what I did for what it’s worth.
At issue was an aluminum tank that would have to be cut up to remove it, replacement poly tanks would reduce capacity by ten percent. I opted to clean the tank by installing access ports large enough to reach in to my shoulder. I found a product called “Brewcoat” from Coating for small and large water tanks, boat water tanks,sistern coating, safe for food contact, aquaculture, fish safe. For use on potable water tanks,brewing tanks, etc. that is designed for coating the inside of food storage tanks. Sound Specialty was very easy to work with, explained exactly what I needed to do for substrate preparation, and was available 24/7 if I needed any support. 24/7 availability for a very small company is impressive in itself. They recommend a minimum of two coats and the smallest kit is one gallon each of epoxy and hardener. I did two throughout and a third where there had been pitting and still have half leftover.
I originally learned about Brewcoat either from this or the Trawler Forum, with lots of follow up information. We used the boat extensively over the last year and the Admiral is very happy with the results.
As to your hoses, go with PEX. Buy the cutter, it works better, cleaner and faster than a saw even though it looks lightweight, and the handle crimper. I have replaced much of my fresh water tubing and it connects to the gray tubing, an ancestor to PEX, just fine. For sweeping 90 degree bends there is a reinforcement that prevents kinking, use it. Also a heat gun is helpful to straighten it out from the coiled shape. Obviously it’s more vibration resistant than copper.
Filters. I use a screen strainer between the tank and the pump, then an accumulator followed by a run of the mill household filter. I try to use a filter when taking on water, but if one of the grandkids is doing it, the filter attachment for the hose is often forgotten. We carry at least one Costco case of bottled water at all times, but don’t hesitate to use the tank water either. The bottled water is easier than a glass when moving.
Good luck, it’s a less than fun job, but it’s not like doing the black water hoses.....

[CaptMDG]

I had the exact same problem you had with two water tanks that were absolutely disgusting. The "inspection ports" are SS plates with about forty bolts around the edges. The water had a large bio-mass growing in each tank.


I first pumped out the tanks and then refilled them with water and a lot of bleach. I let them sit for three days. I pumped out the tanks again and then power sprayed the insides to knock down any vestiges of the bio-mass and re-pumped them out.



I then refilled the tanks and used the correct amount of Purogene for the size of each tank. Purogene is non-toxic and an absolute killer of every living little organism that can make us sick. It is used by the airlines to purify their water tanks.

[slug]

I don’t drink tank water

Even coffee or tea tastes. Bad with tank water

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by slug

I don’t drink tank water

Even coffee or tea tastes. Bad with tank water

Why put up with bad tanks? It’s all we drink from.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Pcpete

Here’s what I did for what it’s worth.
At issue was an aluminum tank that would have to be cut up to remove it, replacement poly tanks would reduce capacity by ten percent. I opted to clean the tank by installing access ports large enough to reach in to my shoulder. I found a product called “Brewcoat” from Coating for small and large water tanks, boat water tanks,sistern coating, safe for food contact, aquaculture, fish safe. For use on potable water tanks,brewing tanks, etc. that is designed for coating the inside of food storage tanks. Sound Specialty was very easy to work with, explained exactly what I needed to do for substrate preparation, and was available 24/7 if I needed any support. 24/7 availability for a very small company is impressive in itself. They recommend a minimum of two coats and the smallest kit is one gallon each of epoxy and hardener. I did two throughout and a third where there had been pitting and still have half leftover.
I originally learned about Brewcoat either from this or the Trawler Forum, with lots of follow up information. We used the boat extensively over the last year and the Admiral is very happy with the results.
As to your hoses, go with PEX. Buy the cutter, it works better, cleaner and faster than a saw even though it looks lightweight, and the handle crimper. I have replaced much of my fresh water tubing and it connects to the gray tubing, an ancestor to PEX, just fine. For sweeping 90 degree bends there is a reinforcement that prevents kinking, use it. Also a heat gun is helpful to straighten it out from the coiled shape. Obviously it’s more vibration resistant than copper.
Filters. I use a screen strainer between the tank and the pump, then an accumulator followed by a run of the mill household filter. I try to use a filter when taking on water, but if one of the grandkids is doing it, the filter attachment for the hose is often forgotten. We carry at least one Costco case of bottled water at all times, but don’t hesitate to use the tank water either. The bottled water is easier than a glass when moving.
Good luck, it’s a less than fun job, but it’s not like doing the black water hoses.....

Having, on a number of occasions, tasted water from storage tanks that have been coated, I find that the epoxy option far superior to the bitumen based version. Both were claimed to be suitable for the task but I found the bitumen based product left a definite taste in the water, whereas the epoxy didn't. Granted they were in ground concrete tanks in rural areas, but the taste buds don't lie.

[JPA Cate]

@slug,

Maybe you are unaware that those of us with good tank water drink it. We wouldn't drink it if it tasted bad. If your particular tank water gives a bad taste to coffee or tea, I'd suspect the tank was made from the wrong stuff or dirty. To remediate the situation, first try the bleach water, let set and pump all the way out, all the exits for water, even the shower. The water coming out the faucets should smell of bleach. The bleach water will kill stuff that's growing in your hoses or pipes, too.

Then re-fill. If you're really picky, you could have that water checked. However, in all our years living aboard boats, we've never had to do even that. That's why I suspect the actual tank(s) you're using may be something that leaches into the water. But it is a problem that is curable. People who don't use tank water for drinking because it tastes bad haven't cleaned their tanks and re-tried it. Or, have tanks whose coatings have failed, or were of improper material to start out with.

I realize you think it is a reasonable solution to use bottled water, but it is more ecologically sound to make your tanks usable. It is simple, and more inexpensive than buying bottled water, and it doesn't add plastic to the environment.

Ann

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Having, on a number of occasions, tasted water from storage tanks that have been coated, I find that the epoxy option far superior to the bitumen based version. Both were claimed to be suitable for the task but I found the bitumen based product left a definite taste in the water, whereas the epoxy didn't. Granted they were in ground concrete tanks in rural areas, but the taste buds don't lie.

In all probability those tanks were professionally built in controlled environment. Can backyarders guarantee that?


We (Gougeon Brothers, Inc.) have adopted the broad policy of not recommending epoxy for drinking water tanks because of regulatory and safety issues. The potential problems outweigh the benefits. To date, none of Gougeon Brothers’ epoxies meet FDA regulations or any other drinking water certified approval. The major long-term concern with any plastic water tank is extractives leaching out in the water. Off-ratio, poorly cured epoxy can release extractives, as noted above. In the fabrication of water tanks and food handling equipment, the successful use of epoxy requires thorough mixing and adequate elevated temperature post-cure to assure the maximum cross-linking and cure of the polymer. These process controls are not always possible with the home-built tank. Unfortunately, neither Gougeon Brothers, Inc. nor any certification agency can verify the level of quality control exercised in the fabrication of the tank.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by slug

I don’t drink tank water

Even coffee or tea tastes. Bad with tank water

Fix your tanks. My tank water actually tastes better than when it comes out of the tap because the chlorine boils off.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by coopec43

In all probability those tanks were professionally built in controlled environment. Can backyarders guarantee that?


We (Gougeon Brothers, Inc.) have adopted the broad policy of not recommending epoxy for drinking water tanks because of regulatory and safety issues. The potential problems outweigh the benefits. To date, none of Gougeon Brothers’ epoxies meet FDA regulations or any other drinking water certified approval. The major long-term concern with any plastic water tank is extractives leaching out in the water. Off-ratio, poorly cured epoxy can release extractives, as noted above. In the fabrication of water tanks and food handling equipment, the successful use of epoxy requires thorough mixing and adequate elevated temperature post-cure to assure the maximum cross-linking and cure of the polymer. These process controls are not always possible with the home-built tank. Unfortunately, neither Gougeon Brothers, Inc. nor any certification agency can verify the level of quality control exercised in the fabrication of the tank.

Why do you keep quoting this crap? Gougen Brothers are not an authority on drinking water tanks. They know some stuff about epoxy. Big deal.

And frankly, assuming a professional yard is better is a VERY big leap of faith. I’ve seen more rubbish jobs from so called professionals than I can count.

Any remotely intelligent and handy person can easily manage epoxy, plus they can source food grade epoxy if they care too AND they can coat the whole lot with a local standards certified coating for a few dollars, just for peace of mind.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by GILow

Why do you keep quoting this crap? Gougen Brothers are not an authority on drinking water tanks. They know some stuff about epoxy. Big deal.

And frankly, assuming a professional yard is better is a VERY big leap of faith. I’ve seen more rubbish jobs from so called professionals than I can count.

Any remotely intelligent and handy person can easily manage epoxy, plus they can source food grade epoxy if they care too AND they can coat the whole lot with a local standards certified coating for a few dollars, just for peace of mind.

That's the sort of comment I have come to expect from you.

The Food and Drug Administration is a US of A Body that set standards for all sorts of things including materials that come into contact with food or water.

Gougeon Bros are saying that anyone using their materials in an uncontrolled environment cannot meet the FDA Regulations 61


INTRODUCTION

In the coatings industry, there are a number of applications where the coating needs to comply with regulations for safe use regarding contact with food or potable water. Depending upon the specific application, the requirements of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) or NSF International (NSF) may be applicable.

Epoxy coatings are widely used for applications requiring contact with food or potable water. The regulations regarding the required testing and the approval process for epoxy coatings under each of these areas are different. The purpose of this bulletin is to:

• provide general information on the FDA, USDA and NSF compliance processes

• list the Evonik epoxy curing agents and modifiers that can be used in compliance with the current FDA requirements (e.g., 21 CFR 175.105 and 21 CFR 175.300)

• list the Evonik epoxy curing agents and modifiers for which compositions have been filed with NSF.IN

https://crosslinkers.evonik.com/prod...le%20water.pdf

[Michael Cobbe]

[QUOTE=Billy Buck;3035189]I am slowly working through the neglect of a stunning boat by a past owner. It's a little maddening, a lot heartbreaking, and a huge opportunity. Thanks for being the community helping me through that in part.

My next query is about water tanks. I had pics but can't find them. So I'll use my words.

The water tanks are under the settees, port and starboard. They are tied into an archaic and corroding copper system by gate valves. I have removed the hot water tank, pump, and all plumbing from the head back to where it tied into the main lines. On a great suggestion from Don Casey we are removing the sink in the head and turning it into a laundry chute. We are installing a hand pump faucet in the galley. We are refitting the boat with 'simple' as our guiding criteria.



The water tanks are disgusting. They haven't been opened or cleaned in years and are coated in what is likely algae (?) gone full 90 to black and for sure harmful. The access ports are tiny. The tanks are fibreglass and glassed into the hull and measure 60"(L) 26"(D) and 18" high at the inboard side and with the curve of the hull on the outboard side.

My wonder at the moment is whether to a) cut in bigger access ports, cut out the old valves and install new ones, clean out the tanks and install new water lines and use that simple system for grey water stuff in the galley or b) do I cut the built-ins out of the boat and install new water tanks in the same place?

A friend looked at them and said they would clean up okay and there is the added safety feature of water tight holds on both sides of the boat in the event of a holing. Seemed a severe observation but he's a Captain so I listen.

To clean ourwater tanks I used one cup of bleach for every 40 gallons, before flushng the water out run the taps. Leave it for two hours then flush once then fill with water.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by coopec43

That's the sort of comment I have come to expect from you.

The Food and Drug Administration is a US of A Body that set standards for all sorts of things including materials that come into contact with food or water.

Gougeon Bros are saying that anyone using their materials in an uncontrolled environment cannot meet the FDA Regulations 61


INTRODUCTION

In the coatings industry, there are a number of applications where the coating needs to comply with regulations for safe use regarding contact with food or potable water. Depending upon the specific application, the requirements of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) or NSF International (NSF) may be applicable.

Epoxy coatings are widely used for applications requiring contact with food or potable water. The regulations regarding the required testing and the approval process for epoxy coatings under each of these areas are different. The purpose of this bulletin is to:

• provide general information on the FDA, USDA and NSF compliance processes

• list the Evonik epoxy curing agents and modifiers that can be used in compliance with the current FDA requirements (e.g., 21 CFR 175.105 and 21 CFR 175.300)

• list the Evonik epoxy curing agents and modifiers for which compositions have been filed with NSF.IN

https://crosslinkers.evonik.com/prod...le%20water.pdf

All these links and quotes are fine, but what do they have to with the original question?