Water in encapsulated keel

[arjand]

Hi all, I am looking at a 1988 boat with a steel encapsulated keep. There were two small cracks and surveyor recommended opening it up and so we did. It is a steel encapsulated keel and the yard is saying there is water between the glass and the steel but this is not an issue. Does anybody have any experience with this? Any thoughts/tips/anything (I never had a boat with such a construction so not sure what to make of it).

[arjand]

(I do have a, first impression, solid surveyor who will come and take a look at it himself).

[kentobin]

My good old boat had it's stainless steel chainplates installed under a 1 1/2" plywood deck and then were embedded in fiberglass. Movement of the chainplate allowed saltwater to ingress into the cavity the chainplates were in. The chainplates started rusting and the chemical reaction caused the 1/2" of fiberglass laid on top of the chainplates to bulge out.

The fiberglass hadn't delaminated but I wouldn't vouch for it's structural integrity.

No good old boat doesn't have some issues but unless you find a surveyor you really trust who has experience with this problem I'd err on the side of caution and stay away from this boat. No way would I trust the boat yard.

Good luck.

[Tortuga's Lie]

It could be an issue if the steel/iron ballast rusts to the point of expanding the fiberglass skin outwards and creating large blisters. Do you know it the water is from the bilge or creeping in from seawater? Salt would speed up the corrosion process.

[miyagimoon]

Originally Posted by arjand

Hi all, I am looking at a 1988 boat with a steel encapsulated keep. There were two small cracks and surveyor recommended opening it up and so we did. It is a steel encapsulated keel and the yard is saying there is water between the glass and the steel but this is not an issue. Does anybody have any experience with this? Any thoughts/tips/anything (I never had a boat with such a construction so not sure what to make of it).

We have a steel encapsulated keel. Managed to hit a rock with it exposing the steel and letting in water. Claimed off the insurance, their surveyor specified that she was to be hauled out, the damaged area sanded back to expose steel. Allowed to dry then the area made good again. That was 8 years ago. No sign of rusting, leaking etc since.

[a64pilot]

You have found the Achilles Heel of an iron or steel encapsulated keel.
Water intrusion anywhere is never good, but as has been pointed out water gets into the metal, it rusts and then you have big problems.
Look at how steel reinforced concrete eventually fails for instance

[chris95040]

Bolt-on keels don't have this problem.

Do you own this boat yet? If not, don't.

[a64pilot]

It could be an easy repair, find out price and of course deduct from purchase price, just like any other deficiency.
I think encapsulated keel failure is pretty rare.

[Mazu]

Not a big deal. usually water is coming in through the bilge. Clean the bilge real good and inspect for crazing above the ballast. I had some hairline cracks that was allowing water to penetrate into the ballast area. I noticed it when I removed the rudder grundion...I had some water dripping out. I just did the repairs last weekend. Ground out the crazing and glassed in a few layers of glass tape. Painted with bilge paint and installed new bilge pump mounting bases. Just let the water drip out completely before sealing the keel especially if you live in the north. Your cracks may have been from freezing of the water. Most likely it is entering the keel through the bilge. I attached some photos

[miyagimoon]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

You have found the Achilles Heel of an iron or steel encapsulated keel.
Water intrusion anywhere is never good, but as has been pointed out water gets into the metal, it rusts and then you have big problems.
Look at how steel reinforced concrete eventually fails for instance

Now lets look at this. It's a big and I mean big piece of steel. How long is it going to take before it rusts to the point of falling off etc. The rest of the boat will probably fall apart first.

Other boats have steel keels which are just painted / anti-fouled. they get scratched etc. The steel goes rusty but you do not worry about them! Think about it.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by chris95040

Bolt-on keels don't have this problem.

Ya the bolts rot and the keel falls off instead! Encapsulated keels are not a bad thing by any means. You could drill a few more small holes and see how extensive the water intrusion is. If a deal can be made let it dry, fill and fair any holes, strip the bottom and apply a new barrier coat to keep any more water out. If its coming from the inside find out where the waters coming from and seal it (assuming thru hulls or deck fittings) walk away if you suspect considerable deck/hull joint or glassed in holding tank leakage.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by miyagimoon

Now lets look at this. It's a big and I mean big piece of steel. How long is it going to take before it rusts to the point of falling off etc. The rest of the boat will probably fall apart first.



Other boats have steel keels which are just painted / anti-fouled. they get scratched etc. The steel goes rusty but you do not worry about them! Think about it.

It’s not going to fail the piece of steel.
It’s going to do exactly like structural concrete does, the steel rusts, expands, that cracks the concrete and the degradation accelerates.
It’s not an overnight failure, but it does in fact fail.
Concrete crumbles, fiberglass delaminates.
It needs fixing, it needs to have the water removed and the keel sealed.
It will only get worse with time.

[blueazimuth]

Water in encapsulated keel?
Exterior salt water should be drained through multiple holes, ground back, allowed to dry out completely and re-glassed.
Large bubbles can be caused by expansion of freezing water, again probably not a reason to turn the boat down.
If fresh water, the source should be located inside the boat and appropriate action taken.
Your photos don'7t show anything unusual for a 30 year old boat.
If you want to be further assured, carefully strip all the paint off, down to the gelcoat, and you'll see previous repairs. I suspect there won't be many.
This appears not to be an expensive repair: the PO should be asked to cover the cost.
This should not be a reason to turn down the boat.
If you like it, buy it.
Shane

[waterman46]

If the seller wont make a number of test holes to check for rust, then properly seal them, you should walk. If you want encapsulated keel, look for boat with lead not steel.

[danhunt]

Is this a bolted on keel that was later encapsulated? I have seen Cascades where that was done.