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Old 24-03-2018, 12:06   #31
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

This is not a house where you’re turning the bedroom into an office. This boat was designed weighted and balanced and meant to use as the builder intended. Find a boat that has the workshop in place because that’s what it was designed for.
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Old 24-03-2018, 12:08   #32
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

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Originally Posted by waterman46 View Post
Your expectations for the amount of room available in a Vberth forward cabin, are somewhat unrealistic. You mention using all those tools and a workbench but don't forget that space under the Vee berths is probably taken by a holding tank. You will need a lot of storage for your tools and supplies. If the holding tank goes, just also remove the forward head entirely and use that space.

Actually a Beneteau or other typical modern 38 foot boat is not best for your goals of having a nice workshop. For about the same money you could find a mid cockpit boat in the 44-46 ft. range. Why mid cockpit? They have a passage through, below and to one side of the cockpit. This passage is a perfect place for a large workshop with 6'+ headroom.

My 46' Morgan already had two 6 1/2 foot bunks in the passage, plus a large cabinet. So I converted the upper bunk to a big workbench and the cabinet is where I store a lot of my supplies for working on the boat. The Morgan came with two 30A circuits and a big generator, so I don't have any problem running microwave, TV and space heater at the same time.

Well NO, I'm sorry it does not sail like a Beneteau or most any other so-called racer/cruiser. You take whatever you think is more important.
Thanks for the detailed response! I realize that there is limited space in a V berth on a 38' boat. I don't plan on doing any major work in there, I really just want it for working on little stuff like electronics. I would occasionally run a drill perhaps, but any serious cabinetry, I would do outside, onl shore power. If only for the sawdust mess! lol. I mainly want to build a reasonably sized work surface (my current workbench is 4'x2' and that is plenty) and a few shelves / lockers, to store my powertools and supplies, like screws, brushes, tools, paints, glues, etc. I realize that I can't make a full workshop in there, and if needed I can store the power tools elsewhere. I just want to maximize the usage of the space I have available. I intend to use the aft berth for sleeping. But I doubt I would EVER use the Vberth as a sleeping quarters, and it just seems like so much wasted space!

I can no where NEAR afford a center console boat! If they are the same price as an aft cockpit boat, in similar condition, I have yet to find one! At least not any that are sea worthy at purchase. I realize that I may have to do some work, but I don't want to purchase a "project boat" that needs to be dry docked for 2 years before I can put it in the water. I will be solo, so I am considering that in my plans as well, so 38' is my target size.

Last night I found a 1999 Beneteau 36' CC on YW that is about $15k above my target price range, but could be doable. I love the layout of that boat! There is a lot more room in a CC boat compared to a similar sized aft cockpit boat. But the galley runs along the port side and the head runs along the starboard side of the console. It still has a normal sized v berth, but a HUGE Master cabin aft. It is frustrating to me that most boats in the 38' range are designed as charter boats (who the he!! needs 2 heads and 3 berths on a 38' boat?). CC boats are designed for cruising, and I wish I could afford one! I am shooting for fall of 2019 to purchase, I am shooting for off season, so maybe I can get a great deal.

But for now, I am trying to plan for a typical boat, that I will probably end up with. As I said in my OP, I am building a 1/10th scale mockup, and I will probably build a full sized mockup from MDF, in my garage just to start planning for what I have space for and what I need to get rid of. If I can't do anything to the V-berth, well, I will have to live with that, and just use the salon table, but I would rather have a dedicated area for projects.

A 46' Morgan! That sounds great! That would be a mansion for me! lol. But that is way above my size and price range. I am shooting for $40-60k for initial purchase. Then I could afford to invest in improvements. I am fairly good with my hands but I would like to start out sailing locally and improving my boat as I go along. I don't want my first boat purchase to be a project boat from the start.

Again, thanks for the great reply!
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Old 24-03-2018, 12:33   #33
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulfcoastsailor View Post
This is not a house where you’re turning the bedroom into an office. This boat was designed weighted and balanced and meant to use as the builder intended. Find a boat that has the workshop in place because that’s what it was designed for.
Who makes such a boat?
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Old 24-03-2018, 13:07   #34
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

Judging from the replies I'm getting, I think I gave the wrong impression. First off, I will do only what I can to that area, based on the limitations of what I have to work with. But 90% of ~38 foot boats are configured the same way. I just want to make efficient use of, what would be for me, a large wasted space. I don't intend to change the CG of the boat! I am not going to hang a bunch of oak cabinets up there, I merely want to maximize that space. From many of the photos I see of boats, it seems most people use the v berth as a 'Flintstones Closet'... where there is just a bunch of crap thrown in there to get it out of the way, and keep the door closed.

I will be living on my boat, and I need to maximize space within the limitations I have to work with. "All boats are a compromise" I wish I could afford a 50' pristine boat, loaded with electronics goodies. But I can't. I will be doing most of my own work (where I can). So I want to bring as many tools with me as I can and make do with a boat I can comfortably handle solo and has a fair bit of room.

My plan is to purchase the boat, move aboard and rent a storage facility near the boat, to use as a workshop for a year or two. I don't want to buy a boat that I dry docked for hull issues. I would like to buy a boat that is already seaworthy, but may need a little work on the inside. I will be moving onto my boat shortly after purchase, Paying rent and a boat payment would be a burden, and would be $1500/mo that I could be spending on fixing up the boat. I am not heading off to sail the world until I retire in about 12 years... If then! I will play it by ear. but in the mean time, I plan on being based in Florida for a while, gaining confidence in my boat, and building up my sailing skills.

I appreciate all the great responses that I am receiving. I understand the limitation I am facing, I was hoping that someone here had done something similar to their boat. I am looking for ideas for what I CAN do, not what I can't.
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Old 24-03-2018, 13:30   #35
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

1981 Morgan 46 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

This Morgan seems to fit in your budget and wish list..
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Old 24-03-2018, 15:18   #36
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

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Originally Posted by WingRyder View Post
I responded to your post earlier, but i guess it didnt send... what is under the rest of the bed, on the sides? One requirement I have, is to have somewhere to put a workbench (counter where I can sit with my legs underneath). The water tank could easily be covered by a counter top to add additional workspace. That would provide good access to the tanks when needed.

I am still not understanding how a water tank can provide ballast in a collision. If it were breached in a collision, wouldnt that just be 80 gallons of heavier fresh water added to the inside of your sinking vessel? Or is it encased in foam or something?
No. The use of a tank that is molded in the boat (not all are) means there would be an inner tank wall that would have to be penetrated in addition to the outer hull. That is what is meant by "additional crash protection."

This is highly dependent on the boat design, the location and build if the tank, and assumes the crash happens at that location.
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Old 24-03-2018, 15:28   #37
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

You have many desires.
Focus on needs.
Every boat is a compromise.

Here is a video of an older Boat, vintage 1980s. Niagara 35 Classic.
This boat has a very unusual layout (floor plan).
What makes it possibly a good fit for your need, is the layout as it has a compartment that is in the forward part of the boat, where you may find a Vberth that could be used to store tools, put a work table, etc. view the video, and from 2:14 on is the compartment I mean. Notice the table or shelf like space. Mount a chair seat on the lower port part of furniture, use the upper broad shelf or platform on starboard side for work table or bench. Store stuff forward in peak.

https://youtu.be/5VIXIfuTP3M
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Old 24-03-2018, 15:43   #38
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingRyder View Post
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
1. From many of the photos I see of boats, it seems most people use the v berth as a 'Flintstones Closet'... where there is just a bunch of crap thrown in there to get it out of the way, and keep the door closed.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

2. I appreciate all the great responses that I am receiving. I understand the limitation I am facing, I was hoping that someone here had done something similar to their boat. I am looking for ideas for what I CAN do, not what I can't.
1. Many of us do exactly the opposite. We bought our boat for the great aft cabin, but found our V berth to be among, if not THE largest one we have seen on bats of our size. One person can sleep athwartships easily because it is that large. Two folks fit comfortably with plenty of foot room. Our aft cabin, like many of the 1800 boats produced, has become what all of us refer to as "The Garage." It all depends on the boat. For example, the great Hunter Cherubinis were tremendous boats, but so pinched at the bow that sleeping in the V berth for two people was a challenge becaue there was only room for two, not four, feet.

2. I'd seen that picture of someone making a V berth into spots for four people. That's fine as long as you're pretending to be a torpedo!!! The trick is going to be your feet, really, whether sleeping or sitting at a workbench. Because of the size of the boat you are considering, finding ample room for your feet as the hull curves up from below at the bow, in front of the forward bulkhead, is simply a reality you will have to plan for. Think of it as upside down ergonomics.

Good luck.
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Old 24-03-2018, 17:26   #39
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadman Uhlich View Post
You have many desires.
Focus on needs.
Every boat is a compromise.

Here is a video of an older Boat, vintage 1980s. Niagara 35 Classic.
This boat has a very unusual layout (floor plan).
What makes it possibly a good fit for your need, is the layout as it has a compartment that is in the forward part of the boat, where you may find a Vberth that could be used to store tools, put a work table, etc. view the video, and from 2:14 on is the compartment I mean. Notice the table or shelf like space. Mount a chair seat on the lower port part of furniture, use the upper broad shelf or platform on starboard side for work table or bench. Store stuff forward in peak.

https://youtu.be/5VIXIfuTP3M
Thanks for the link! That little work area is excellent! I could live with something like that. I don't know what you searched on YT to find that, but I have been combing for weeks and have yet to find someone that did this. I think I would hide the water maker behind a removable panel, for protection, but that's pretty close to what I need.

Thank Steadman!
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Old 24-03-2018, 17:49   #40
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
1. Many of us do exactly the opposite. We bought our boat for the great aft cabin, but found our V berth to be among, if not THE largest one we have seen on bats of our size. One person can sleep athwartships easily because it is that large. Two folks fit comfortably with plenty of foot room. Our aft cabin, like many of the 1800 boats produced, has become what all of us refer to as "The Garage." It all depends on the boat. For example, the great Hunter Cherubinis were tremendous boats, but so pinched at the bow that sleeping in the V berth for two people was a challenge becaue there was only room for two, not four, feet.

2. I'd seen that picture of someone making a V berth into spots for four people. That's fine as long as you're pretending to be a torpedo!!! The trick is going to be your feet, really, whether sleeping or sitting at a workbench. Because of the size of the boat you are considering, finding ample room for your feet as the hull curves up from below at the bow, in front of the forward bulkhead, is simply a reality you will have to plan for. Think of it as upside down ergonomics.

Good luck.
LOL! Another thing I don't think I would like is that the pillows (if you sleep head aftward, is that my pillow would end up on the floor! Some initial sketches I've done is to put a workbench against the starboard wall in the aft part of the v berth with a stool to sit on, and extend the work surface around to cover the water tank, and put some shelves (where I can) that would accommodate a few shoebox containers and milk crates. Naturally They could be secured during sailing I am a huge fan of PVC pipe and have made some pretty creative things with the stuff... Including a RC car for my son to ride.

This is the RC I built for my boy. powered by 2 Harbor Freight drill motors...

So, making some shelves from PVC could be light weight, removable, and easily changeable. I think using an aft berth for sleeping and the vberth as a usable area seem to make more sense to me.

Thanks for your response.
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Old 24-03-2018, 17:57   #41
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingRyder View Post
Thanks for the link! That little work area is excellent! I could live with something like that. I don't know what you searched on YT to find that, but I have been combing for weeks and have yet to find someone that did this. I think I would hide the water maker behind a removable panel, for protection, but that's pretty close to what I need.

Thank Steadman!
You are welcome.

I am glad you liked what you saw. I do too. Be aware that there are two different models of that boat (the Eclipse model does not have that same layout), so if you search for Niagara 35, make sure you are looking at the proper model (not the Eclipse).

You can find more info on that model of boat on CF or online (google).
I did not search for the Vberth on Youtube, I was just already aware of the layout of that model because I have looked at thousands of boats and study them, so it was just memory that led me to it, then a simple search on YT for that model I remembered.

The Niagara 35 has an unusual layout, and one I like, so memorable to me.
Notice the location and arrangement of the head and galley, which are also unusual.

Good Luck!
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Old 25-03-2018, 18:42   #42
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

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Originally Posted by Calif.Ted View Post
Usually a water tank and maybe part of the anchor locker under V-berth. Regardless of the number of outlets it's typical for boats to have every outlet on a single 10/15 amp circuit. For a boat with a 30 amp shorepower service it is divided into 3 circuits, 10 amp for water heater, 10 for charger/inverter and 10 for all the outlets. You can't run a space heater and a coffee pot at the same time.
Sorry but my Beneteau certainly can run both at the same time. Not sure where this idea comes from but I've a great deal of proof to refute it.
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Old 13-06-2019, 15:24   #43
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Re: V-Berth total refit plan.

Did you ever do the 3d model? I'd love to see this. I'm thinking about redoing a v-berth myself. I need a computer desk with a custom seat that articulates a chair 90 degrees so that I'm essentially sitting back looking up at a monitor. Maybe 45 degrees .

I still want to sleep up there though so I need to make a Pullman berth and a small desk to the side. Not sure if it's doable yet though. I might do a workstation where one settee is instead as there's just so much more room.
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