USCG Documented Vessel vs State Registration

[Maka]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Those free state/county launching ramps and parking, and free overnight docks, are paid for by the OSMB. So are the free head pump out stations at fuel docks and some marinas. It is a model agency, and a bargain to boot.

Greg

Greg.
Im delighted to hear that the OSMB is such a stellar operation.


I don't use the FREE launching ramps or parking and I have not used free head pump out stations.

I need to learn where the Free overnight docks are so I too can get something for the fees I pay them.


Actually I was not complaining. The fees I pay the State are a minuscule part of my annual boat costs.

The only issue I have is that sometimes some one has a fit because there are no stickers on the bow of my boat.
( USCG documented vessel stickers go on the aft section)
. I assume these are new guys who don't know....and it always gets resolved quickly.
Still, responding to a threatening complaint is annoying.



Thanks for the enlightening spotlight on the OSMB

[Adelie]

Given that the boat is 29’ long you need to make sure the boat can be documented.
USCG won’t document below a certain tonnage. In this case tonnage is not a weight or displacement but a usable volume of the boat.
I looked at documenting my boat but even interpreting the rules as liberally as possible I was at half the minimum. I think the minimum is 5tons.

[Calif.Ted]

I had a Catalina 270 that was documented.
California boat registration is $20/year.
Documented boats are not required and can NOT register with the state.
Both are subject to "use" tax on purchase at sales tax rate by the state.
The owner of record of a boat in California on January 1 is subject to unsecured property tax by the county in which the boat is kept. About 1% of assessed value.

[CruiserBrad]

I built 2 sailboats, both catamarans by the way, one in Maryland and one in South Carolina. The process was as follows. Fill out state title and registration application, submit copies of matierial recepts, including the sales tax on those materials, get hull id number issued by the state, attach id number to stb rear and one other place below. Once you get a hull Id number, then if you want you can apply for US documentation. You need a hull ID number to get a US Doc number and the only way to get one is through the state registration and title process.

[badadim]

Anybody familiar with 'undocumented vessel'?

Will you be crossing borders?

Will you be getting hull insurance or only liability?

Is there annual pleasure craft vessel use tax to get California state decal and how much time one can be in CA waters without it?

Is California state tax a sails tax or value added tax (if I am not mistaken only VAT is self deductible - you reduce total due by tax paid on materials, unlike sales tax)?

How much the total state tax due? Does it worth the hassle or it is a matter of principle?

Are you United States citizen?

Have you explored LLC owned vessel in no tax state option? LLC setup and ongoing cost plus delivery to take LLC possession vs tax due? Suspect that tax due will make more sense.

Having these questions answered may help to see the overall life situation before concluding which way to go.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Maka

The only issue I have is that sometimes some one has a fit because there are no stickers on the bow of my boat.
( USCG documented vessel stickers go on the aft section).

What sticker? Mine's documented and all I get is an annual document to keep in a file on the boat. No external sticker of any kind.

[CarinaPDX]

Some states issue registration stickers for documented vessels. They are like the ones used with the numbers on the bow, but are usually mounted on the quarters. If your state doesn't do that then no worries...

Greg

[Phyl]

I have gone the rounds with California DMV on this one. And the Coast Guard on the documentation site advises that having the national documentation does not affect the rules of the state about registration.

So we do both. The only thing we don't do is put the CF number on the hull. I furnish both documentation and registration and insurance (of course) to my marina.

The interesting thing that happened was that the county where I register charges personal property tax on the vessel. But they charged it once on the CF number and once on the documentation. That took a tussle to get straightened out. Now, though, they correctly charge me with only 1 Cal 29.

[Medic 4 U]

Although I live in Wisconsin & not California, I chose to Document my 36' Trojan power boat, versus going the State registration route. Whoever stid the USCG is way behind, they are correct. I purchased my boat in mid march, and just got the documentation forms last week! NOW, since I purchased the yacht from a dealer, THEY send the Documentation forms into the state, and the state sends me my stickers. This may be different from state to state as well. I don't have registration numbers to put on my hull, I am simply required to permanently affixed "documentation Numbers" to a stringer, 'someplace obvious', that would show obvious signs of tampering, pay $50 every 5 years, and place a small Wisconsin state decal on each side of the name that must be placed on my transom, as well as my home port of call.

I say all this because even if you only 'document' your boat, there is still going to be some sort of connection your boat has with your state, as I cannot imagine states are very different by not requiring having their state sticker being affixed somewhere on a documented vessel. What I find funny is that the Milwaukee City & county police & Sheriff are both clueless to what a documented vessel it. Because the USCG is so far behind, they have put a letter out that I actually finally printed out, and kept on board, because I would say this summer myself, or my young adult son would be pulled over, due to having no numbers on the hull, and since we don't have stickers on the transom yet either, they are on you like flies on stink! I had one even cite me, and I had to take it all the way to court, and I was angry enough about it I made a fool out of him in front of a packed court house, and would do it again in a heart beat.

If you are going to put land lubber cops on boats, they better know A) how to operate a vessel, and B) the laws they are supposed to enforce! If I know more than you, and I have to take the morning off from work to clear my name, I am going to make sure I enjoy doing it. And boy did I, It didn't hurt that I saw him get out of his car that morning with a Bernie 2020 bumper sticker... So he really had it coming then... But I strongly suggest documenting your vessel, just understand it will still be tied to the state of California. Good luck.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by badadim

...
Is there annual pleasure craft vessel use tax to get California state decal and how much time one can be in CA waters without it?

Is California state tax a sails tax or value added tax (if I am not mistaken only VAT is self deductible - you reduce total due by tax paid on materials, unlike sales tax)?

How much the total state tax due? Does it worth the hassle or it is a matter of principle? ,,,.

There is an annual property tax in California. Tax is based on assessed value times the local tax rate (varies between 1% and 2%).

Use or sales tax is assessed once, at the time of purchase. (There is no value-added tax) State and local taxes (sales, use, property) can reduce U.S. federal taxable income up to the federal limit. Such taxes aren't subtracted from taxes due but only against taxable income.

[markpierce]

Quoted from the California DMV website:

"A documented vessel is registered and issued a marine certificate by the U.S. Coast Guard. It does not require DMV registration."

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Quoted from the California DMV website:

"A documented vessel is registered and issued a marine certificate by the U.S. Coast Guard. It does not require DMV registration."

Phyl, you needn't have DMV-registered your USCG-documented vessel. As a result, the gov't assumed you had two boats and thus billed you for same, and you paid an unnecessary fee.

[Zzmeyer]

Originally Posted by Phyl

I have gone the rounds with California DMV on this one. And the Coast Guard on the documentation site advises that having the national documentation does not affect the rules of the state about registration.

So we do both. The only thing we don't do is put the CF number on the hull. I furnish both documentation and registration and insurance (of course) to my marina.

The interesting thing that happened was that the county where I register charges personal property tax on the vessel. But they charged it once on the CF number and once on the documentation. That took a tussle to get straightened out. Now, though, they correctly charge me with only 1 Cal 29.

Surprised you had a problem with this. The following is the very first sentence from the California DMV on boat registration website.
"Generally, every sail-powered vessel over eight feet in length and every motor-driven vessel (regardless of length) that is not documented by the U.S. Coast Guard which is used or on the waters of this state are subject to registration by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV)"

[RSH]

Originally Posted by George DuBose

Skylark is a USCG documented sailboat living in The Netherlands. Still flying the Stars and Stripes, but had to pay VAT to the Dutch and have a Post-Construction Assessment survey, just to hang out in Europe for awhile (more than the allowed 18 months).

South Carolina tried to charge me property tax. They got my address from NVDC, as that documentation certificate is delivered to an address in that state, but the boat has never been in SC waters.

What did you do with regards to SC's tax bill?

South Carolina just whammied us with a massive property tax one for our boat, which we brought in in March and has spent the summer there. Our plans were to move it in the winter to Florida, but now I'm worried I'll get whammied with another property tax bill from Florida on top of the one SC just sent me.

We bought the boat in FL, moved it to SC this year, and are GA residents, the boat is USCG documented.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

What sticker? Mine's documented and all I get is an annual document to keep in a file on the boat. No external sticker of any kind.

Are you in Washington State? They do require registration and the display of the decal on the hulls but not the reg. number for documented boats. I think most states see it this way.
https://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/420082.pdf