Update LPG system or replace stove with something safer?

[BrandonB]

Hello all.

I am doing my research to update our LPG system to ABCY specs. We have a Beneteau First 32.5 1989 with a beautiful Force 10 gimballed oven and 2 burner stove.

The system is condemned (by insurance co) and disconnected. Tanks have been removed from the boat.

I was at the boat this past Saturday but forgot to look for the model number of the stove. So I do not know if it is equipped with thermal couples or not or if that can even be retrofitted. I imagine if I need to replace the appliance and the entire LPG feeding and safety shut off, etc. I may cost less to remove the LPG appliance and start new with alcohol.

Has anyone undertaken a project like this? I am in Canada.

[tkeithlu]

Alcohol has a very negative reputation in boating. It's probably better to renew your LPG. I built my own, and used to be a member of ABYC, but I don't think that I still have A-26, the standard for LPG equipment.

You don't say why your system was condemned. Was it the stove or the LPG system that caused the problem?

This link summarizes A-1 (LPG systems) and A-26 (the stove), with attention to Canadians.

Safe Boat Propane System Installation

Good luck with it.

[BrandonB]

Thanks. I have that website guide already.

The tank was so old it didn't have an OPD valve. There was no emergency shut off solenoid. No propane leak detector.

The insurance company condemned it. We had to disconnect the tank and remove it from the boat.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by BrandonB

Hello all.

I am doing my research to update our LPG system to ABCY specs. We have a Beneteau First 32.5 1989 with a beautiful Force 10 gimballed oven and 2 burner stove.

The system is condemned (by insurance co) and disconnected. Tanks have been removed from the boat.

I was at the boat this past Saturday but forgot to look for the model number of the stove. So I do not know if it is equipped with thermal couples or not or if that can even be retrofitted. I imagine if I need to replace the appliance and the entire LPG feeding and safety shut off, etc. I may cost less to remove the LPG appliance and start new with alcohol.

Has anyone undertaken a project like this? I am in Canada.

Most Force-10 have thermocouples.
I am in the process of doing everything, propane tank mount on the stern (I don't have a propane locker), solenoid, regulator, etc, and one long propane hose to the stove, sniffers, shut-off control boards.
Not a big deal, just read the code and buy the appropriate equipment - don't skimp. The problems arise when people try to save a few bucks and fool themselves, then they go flying.

[Mirage35]

Originally Posted by BrandonB

Thanks. I have that website guide already.

The tank was so old it didn't have an OPD valve. There was no emergency shut off solenoid. No propane leak detector.

The insurance company condemned it. We had to disconnect the tank and remove it from the boat.

Those are all fairly simple accessories to replace / install. I would be inclined to thoroughly check the rest of the installation just to be sure, but then would just upgrade to meet standard and enjoy the convenience of propane.

[psk125]

Originally Posted by BrandonB

Thanks. I have that website guide already.

The tank was so old it didn't have an OPD valve. There was no emergency shut off solenoid. No propane leak detector.

The insurance company condemned it. We had to disconnect the tank and remove it from the boat.

Sounds like the insurance company has given you a list of three things you need to fix:
1. Get a tank that has an OPD valve.
2. Get a solenoid for the propane emergency shutoff
3. Get a propane leak detector.
and then you're back in business. Perhaps you should talk to them, rather than us.

[hpeer]

Love our Taylors Kerosene Cooker.

[psk125]

Originally Posted by BrandonB

Thanks. I have that website guide already.

The tank was so old it didn't have an OPD valve. There was no emergency shut off solenoid. No propane leak detector.

The insurance company condemned it. We had to disconnect the tank and remove it from the boat.

Sounds like the insurance company has given you a list of three things you need to fix:
1. Get a tank that has an OPD valve.
2. Get a solenoid for the propane emergency shutoff
3. Get a propane leak detector.
and then you're back in business. Perhaps you should talk to them, rather than us. Our 1981 Force 10 stove is equipped with thermocouples. They would not have regressed in 1989.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by BrandonB

Hello all.

I am doing my research to update our LPG system to ABCY specs. We have a Beneteau First 32.5 1989 with a beautiful Force 10 gimballed oven and 2 burner stove...

What type of expected stove/oven usage? Do you need an oven?
Full-time liveaboard? Weekends only? 2 weeks at a time?
A you more of a chef of more one who heats food components?
What kind of electrical capacity?
Are you personally averse at all to propane?
For light stove-top cooking a non-pressurized alcohol stove is simple and not terrible, arguably at least as safe as propane (including at least being awake and present when anything bad might happen).

[BrandonB]

Originally Posted by Singularity

What type of expected stove/oven usage? Do you need an oven?
Full-time liveaboard? Weekends only? 2 weeks at a time?

Not a full time live aboard. weekends at least, couple nights on anchor.

A you more of a chef of more one who heats food components?

Chef.

What kind of electrical capacity?

30 A shore power. I recently updated the AC system. New shore connector, wiring, panel, GFCI, recept in v berth.

2 house battery bank 12V system is a mess and is being updated this winter.

Are you personally averse at all to propane?

No. I know from personal experience how devastating a propane accident is. (family member was terribly burned in a home propane explosion). So I am doing all of my due diligence.

For light stove-top cooking a non-pressurized alcohol stove is simple and not terrible, arguably at least as safe as propane (including at least being awake and present when anything bad might happen).

I will be awake and present regardless of what cooking system we decide on.

Thanks

[toolbar]

I inherited an unsafe gas system with my new old boat as well.

I would have loved to switch to an Origo - but they aren't produced anymore and especially the few used Origo 4200 cookers on the market are crazy expensive. The typically go for up to 600 EUR, more than twice their price when new.

So I will bite the bullet and modernize the gas system.

bye, Paul

[pcmm]

Even an 80's vintage boat with a propane system should have had all of those features. Switching to Alcohol would be a kin to switching from LED lights to candles for lighting.. Why would you want to do it?

What you've got to do is not a difficult retrofit. Just need a length of preterminated propane hose (no joints inside except to connect to the appliance) a new Tank (CDN tire has 11lb tanks in stock) a regulator and solenoid and a sniffer system. all of these are doable by a competent DIY'r First though make sure your LPG locker is good has a drain that flows down hill. the work up from there. and LEAK TEST EVERYTHING multiple times to be sure.

[BrandonB]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Even an 80's vintage boat with a propane system should have had all of those features. Switching to Alcohol would be a kin to switching from LED lights to candles for lighting.. Why would you want to do it?

What you've got to do is not a difficult retrofit. Just need a length of preterminated propane hose (no joints inside except to connect to the appliance) a new Tank (CDN tire has 11lb tanks in stock) a regulator and solenoid and a sniffer system. all of these are doable by a competent DIY'r First though make sure your LPG locker is good has a drain that flows down hill. the work up from there. and LEAK TEST EVERYTHING multiple times to be sure.

Yep. Got it. Someone posted a link from a surveyor on safe LPG installation. It's excellent.

I do have a propane locker with a 3/4" drain that's big enough to install the guage, regulator, solenoid, valve and make all the joints in.

I have a friend that is a gas fitter. He will be helping my with the joints and will do all the leak testing.

Thanks

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by BrandonB

Thanks. I have that website guide already.

The tank was so old it didn't have an OPD valve. There was no emergency shut off solenoid. No propane leak detector.

The insurance company condemned it. We had to disconnect the tank and remove it from the boat.

Emergency shutoff solenoid $70
Propane leak detector varies (i paid about $50-100)
New tank with built in OPD valve ($172)

Seems kind of extreme to pull out the whole system over buying a new tank, and a recommended safety equipment.

Which all boats of any size should have a co, smoke, and flammable gas detector on board anyway.

For best safety wire your leak detector remote output through a relay to your shutoff solenoid.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by BrandonB

Hello all.

I am doing my research to update our LPG system to ABCY specs. We have a Beneteau First 32.5 1989 with a beautiful Force 10 gimballed oven and 2 burner stove.

The system is condemned (by insurance co) and disconnected. Tanks have been removed from the boat.

I was at the boat this past Saturday but forgot to look for the model number of the stove. So I do not know if it is equipped with thermal couples or not or if that can even be retrofitted. I imagine if I need to replace the appliance and the entire LPG feeding and safety shut off, etc. I may cost less to remove the LPG appliance and start new with alcohol.

Has anyone undertaken a project like this? I am in Canada.

I’ve setup the propane systems on my last 2 boats. I’m in the GTA if it helps.