Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-01-2022, 19:09   #1
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2020
Location: Maryland
Boat: Noord Nederland Seahawk 31
Posts: 153
Unique Rudder & Rudder Post Removal

So I'm trying to remove my rudder/rudder post. I have a 30' 1974 steel boat with some quirks (to say the least), and the whole rudder assembly is a bit unique. There is no particular reason for the removal besides inspecting—the boat was a total refit a couple years ago and I had issues with some hidden steel corrosion that put me on the hard for a month, and I never explored the rudder post during the refit so it seems prudent to take a look at it in case it's degraded. It is attached at both the top and bottom—the bottom bracket, which was connected to a guard extending from below the prop, came off with no issues. The rudder is now completely loose on the bottom, but I cannot figure out how to detach it from the top. There are two different pieces of metal in the cockpit between the tiller and where the post disappears into its tube—a clean metal bracket that the tiller attaches to and a rusted piece below it. There was a vertical bolt in the tiller bracket (the top one) that was removed, but nothing happened, the two pieces are still firmly attached. There is also a tiny screw in the bottom piece that does not want to come out. My working theory is that the vertical bolt in the tiller bracket should have been what was holding the tiller bracket down but that over time the two metals have pressure sealed or corrosion sealed together (I have no idea what alloys the two metals are), and that the screw that does not want to come out could be a set screw for a key system that connects the internal rudder post to the two metal pieces that extend into the cockpit. If this is the case, how do I go about removing the rudder/rudder post without potentially damaging it (I don't want to do any cutting if I can avoid it because it's all custom)? And if this is not the case, what else could be holding the rudder up? Last question: I don't want to put myself in a position where the damage from exploring is greater than the amount of degradation that may or may not exist on the rudder post. The boat was on the hard for 30+ years before I did the refit and I've only had the one corrosion issue, so is it worth the risk to potentially damage custom components in order to see what may or may not be inside?

Photos attached include the whole rudder system (solid steel rudder & post that are one component), the bottom after the bottom bracket was removed, where the post enters the hull, and some shots of the cockpit side of things (you can see the two metal pieces and the tiny screw).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2293.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	431.6 KB
ID:	251958   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2284.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	465.8 KB
ID:	251959  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2498.jpg
Views:	69
Size:	438.8 KB
ID:	251960   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2495.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	395.6 KB
ID:	251961  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2282.jpg
Views:	62
Size:	405.1 KB
ID:	251962  
KelseyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2022, 19:10   #2
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2020
Location: Maryland
Boat: Noord Nederland Seahawk 31
Posts: 153
Re: Unique Rudder & Rudder Post Removal

Note: all of these pictures turned sideways except for one- sorry about that!
KelseyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2022, 21:27   #3
Registered User
 
Spot's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Minnesota, USA
Boat: 21' trailer sailor & 8' sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,474
Re: Unique Rudder & Rudder Post Removal

Hi Kelsey,
Good to hear you're still kicking it with the boat.

I would be soaking the casting and collar on top of the rudder tube with PJ Blaster Penetrating. I'd probably put the lower rudder bracket back on until the alloy casting is pulled off (might take a gear puller or pickle fork) and collar and screw(s) are loosened. If you have to bang on anything use a wooden block in between hammer and metal. If the situation becomes dire I'd sacrifice the rusty steel collar on top of the rudder post to an angle grinder and cutting wheel and order something new off of McMaster Carr. There might be a bit of a seal in there too, keep taking pics as you go.

If you had a picture of the tiller in action or a straighter-down shot of the alloy casting that might stir up some more responses too.
__________________
Big dreams, small boats...
Spot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2022, 05:44   #4
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2020
Location: Maryland
Boat: Noord Nederland Seahawk 31
Posts: 153
Re: Unique Rudder & Rudder Post Removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot View Post
Hi Kelsey,
Good to hear you're still kicking it with the boat.

I would be soaking the casting and collar on top of the rudder tube with PJ Blaster Penetrating. I'd probably put the lower rudder bracket back on until the alloy casting is pulled off (might take a gear puller or pickle fork) and collar and screw(s) are loosened. If you have to bang on anything use a wooden block in between hammer and metal. If the situation becomes dire I'd sacrifice the rusty steel collar on top of the rudder post to an angle grinder and cutting wheel and order something new off of McMaster Carr. There might be a bit of a seal in there too, keep taking pics as you go.

If you had a picture of the tiller in action or a straighter-down shot of the alloy casting that might stir up some more responses too.
Thanks Spot- I was also definitely thinking PB blaster for separating the tiller bracket and the collar. All very helpful. Here's a top down shot after the tiller was removed—you can see the hole for the vertical bolt I mentioned that went down into the tiller bracket. The other vertical bolt doesn't attach to anything, it's simply for adjusting the height of the tiller.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2497.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	402.2 KB
ID:	251986  
KelseyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2022, 06:03   #5
Moderator
 
tkeithlu's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Carrabelle, Florida
Boat: Fiberglas shattering 44' steel trawler
Posts: 5,161
Re: Unique Rudder & Rudder Post Removal

Spot is spot on. The collar has to come off. I'd go directly to step number 2, grinding off the collar with a cutting wheel, because I don't think that you are going to get it off without destroying it, and you won't want to reuse it in any case. You will have to be very careful, because you don't want to damage the tube or the shaft in the process. I suggest two vertical cuts, almost to the shaft, and then pry the pieces apart. If in the process you do ding the shaft, the cuts will be vertical and not interfere with the new collar. Here's the relevant M-C page:

https://www.mcmaster.com/shaft-collars/
__________________
Never let anything mechanical know that you are in a hurry.
tkeithlu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2022, 11:36   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 5,300
Images: 7
Re: Unique Rudder & Rudder Post Removal

If it's not stiff to turn I'd tend to ultrasonic thicknessing the outer tube and if it was not badly corroded leave it alone.
__________________
Satiriker ist verboten, la conformité est obligatoire
RaymondR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2022, 11:52   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Kennebunk ME
Boat: Owner built 60’ Aluminum Expedition Yacht.
Posts: 1,417
Re: Unique Rudder & Rudder Post Removal

We will go with Spot and the Green Frog on this one. Great advice.
Not sure if ultrasound will give you an accurate idea of all the issues. For example, we would think it’s time to look at the construction and the seal, if there is one.
Where does the weight of the rudder rest?
Might be a good time to look into plastic bushings.
Happy trails to you.
Mark and the manatees
Manateeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
removal, rudder

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Airmar "Transom&q uot ; style triducer does not give wate Franziska Marine Electronics 3 04-10-2021 12:45
O'Day 30 table removal and settee removal biker6977 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 2 25-09-2014 08:40

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:57.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.