Turning a Ketch into a Cutter

[ALAIN97133]

Originally Posted by SKG56

This maybe a stupid question but I'm going to ask it anyway, has anyone ever heard of someone turning a Ketch into a Cutter, if so, was the result a positive one

I don't have time to read all the answers, but if you don't want to change the location of the main mast, you could turn it into a 7/8 rig with a longer boom & a larger mainsail (A taller mast?). I love the 7/8 rig 'cause the sailboat can go upwind under main alone which is very handy when you're short handed or alone: You get your anchoring gear ready & can sail upwind without touching a line 'till you reach your anchoring spot; once there, you drop your anchor & push the main on the windward side so the wind push you sailboat backward. Another good point of the 7/8 rig is that instead on reducing the genoa, the first way to reduce sails is to take main first reef. The main head stops then at the head of the forestay. On bigger sailboats, that would also be the level at which the running backstays would be attached to the mast. Running backstays are not liked that much but provided the rig is designed to be safe 'till force 5 without them, they're a nice feature for offshore sailor in heavy weather.

[ChicF]

I have the Seawind Ketch and when I bought the boat I was looking for a cutter. I stumbled upon the the Seawind and did a little research. I bought the Ketch and have been very happy I did. I had never sailed a Ketch and thought the boat was too small for a Ketch and that the mast in the cockpit was in the way and hard to deal with an extra sail. I could not have been more wrong as I now would not have anything but the Ketch. The Mizzen is the first sail up and last down! The boat balances perfectly with just the Mizzen and jib for sailing in winds over 30 knots. When motoring with no wind the Mizzen provides just enough leverage to dampen movement and also helps in anchoring. While healed over at sea the Mizzen mast provides a great place to brace yourself and is also what we have our cockpit table mounted to. After living with the Ketch I now would not have anything but!

[ALAIN97133]

Originally Posted by ChicF

I have the Seawind Ketch and when I bought the boat I was looking for a cutter. I stumbled upon the the Seawind and did a little research....While healed over at sea the Mizzen mast provides a great place to brace yourself and is also what we have our cockpit table mounted to. After living with the Ketch I now would not have anything but!

Donald Street -old fart like me will remember him- was a brilliant advocate of the YAWL. It's like a sloop with a tiny mizzen with its mizzen mast aft of the rudder post. He used it for the radar & to steady his Iolaire while anchored, where other boats would "tack" on their anchor & for many other things like stearing Iolaire when the rudder was inefficient in very light wind.
IOLAIRE FOR SALE - Donald M. Street Jr.

[Briandownsouth]

if you want the club footed jib, you can add the cutter rig without loosing the mizzen. That's the most flexible sail plan I think.

[Sailmonkey]

On a seawind II the conversion process is not simple, as was stated above, the main mast is moved aft on the cutter, to the aft side of the head door, not a trivial movement of the compression post, the chain plates are in different locations (again not a trivial movement of the knees), and I believe the mast is taller (if memory serves).

However, the ketch is a great boat, as Chic mentioned the mizzen is the first sail up and down, the mizzen mast is a good place for a wind gen and radar. The standing rigging going everywhere takes some getting used to, but is not bad either.


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[coastalexplorer]

Historically the Cutter was an English idea, It had a narrow beam deep hull with at least two head sails in order to increase luff length for beating to windward down the English Channel into the Atlantic.

The sloop was a Dutch idea for a wide beam shallow draught hull with a very large mainsail. small foresail or none used.Intended to be used a lot on inland waters with wind across the polders in any direction

The schooner was an American idea and perhaps a blend of the two. because the winds usually blow either on shore or off shore on the east coast. So they could sail out on an offshore wind, reach up or down the coast, and return on a on shore wind.

from this perhaps over simplified description. ketch and yawl were to reduce sail sizes for easier handling by smaller crews. as was the Sprit sail on sailing barges

Since the installation of engines, rig areas became smaller as there was no longer need to catch every breath of wind, and also from there it got all mixed up hulls no longer matched to rigs. yes personal preference took over. however perhaps there is merit for coastal work to give some considerations of prevailing wind conditions in choosing which rig concept applies?

[Cheechako]

I imagine it depends on the boat as far as balance goes. But let's face it, many ketch owners just sail their ketch with the mizzen seldom up anyway....

[Scaramanga F25]

If you look carefully on the elevation plan, the mast seems farther aft
on the cutter.
That being said, a longer + or - 3 feet of main boom and sail would work.

[Mikado]

My boat is a 56' CNSO Mikado ketch. It was a production boat made in France. They built about 105. They are a combination of ketch and cutter rigged ketches. Mine is not cutter rigged but I have purchased all the parts to make it so. My main objective has less to do with sailing/sail combinations but with appearance and an additional sail to manage.

I know this sounds strange but I have been re-fitting Solace for the past 6 years with a long term goal of starting a day charter business in SF Bay. When I saw a cutter rigged Mikado ketch I liked the idea of more sails for clients to manage.

From what can tell, there is no difference with the location and length of spars.

I have talked to owners of cutter rigged Mikado's and they have all told me that they sail beautifully with no bad tendencies so for me, the conversion doesn't have any downsides.

[Rustic Charm]

Mine is a 36 foot cutter rigged ketch. Most of the cutter rig was frozen/rusted when I purchased it so I have taken the sails and gear off. And now I store my dingy in the foredeck where the rig goes. My rigger has suggested I put the rig back on for optimum sail plan. But I'm happy with the trade off in storing my rather heavy plastic dingy there instead until one day I get a blow up.

There is a sister ship to mine in Sweden and they just removed the mizzen and extended the main boom. Personally I think it looks awful now. They didn't replace the main mast with an increased height one either.

But, I like the look of my ketch, so I definately won't be turning it into a sloop. I might one day add the cutter rig again though.

If you havnt purchased yet, then hold off and find the boat that suits you without the need for serious modifications. There's plenty out there. Just need the time and perhaps the money to wait.

[greensail]

Hi - I am planning to do the same to out Southerly 145 and I'm looking for a boom about 3ft longer, That is mainly to move the sheeting position away from the helmsman's neck and increase sail area. Not for balance.

The easy test is sail around in various wind strengths and headings with and without the mizzen and measure the performance and helm load. I found the mizzen did nothing to the performance or the balance of the boat. It is however really good for holding the head into the wind at anchor. That I shall miss.

Bob

[ozskipper]

Originally Posted by SKG56

This maybe a stupid question but I'm going to ask it anyway, has anyone ever heard of someone turning a Ketch into a Cutter, if so, was the result a positive one

Anything can be done. The diff between the two rigs on the seawind is also a longer footed main on the sloop. Thus moving the CLR aft. To make it into a cutter using the existing main may see the boat gaining a lot of lee helm. So you would also be up for new main and boom.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by ausnp84

Ah ok, that's a bit easier then. I'm guessing you mean these two versions of the Allied Seawind?

It looks like the cutter used a longer boom and corresponding larger mainmast, but see if you can find a forum or group to confirm that.

n

Cutter



Ketch

You should note that the mast is a foot or so farther aft on the cutter than on the ketch.

[SKG56]

Originally Posted by ChicF

I have the Seawind Ketch and when I bought the boat I was looking for a cutter. I stumbled upon the the Seawind and did a little research. I bought the Ketch and have been very happy I did. I had never sailed a Ketch and thought the boat was too small for a Ketch and that the mast in the cockpit was in the way and hard to deal with an extra sail. I could not have been more wrong as I now would not have anything but the Ketch. The Mizzen is the first sail up and last down! The boat balances perfectly with just the Mizzen and jib for sailing in winds over 30 knots. When motoring with no wind the Mizzen provides just enough leverage to dampen movement and also helps in anchoring. While healed over at sea the Mizzen mast provides a great place to brace yourself and is also what we have our cockpit table mounted to. After living with the Ketch I now would not have anything but!

Thanks Chic, your response here about this is why I posted this thread, to hear from someone, with this boat, that was looking for a cutter, I am now rethinking the whole idea about the Ketch, I appreciate all the responses to this topic

[SteveSadler]

I had a Gulfstar 50 ketch and rarely used the mizzen as it created lots of weather helm.
It was usefull in a blow as we could drop the main instead of reefing it and set the mizzen. I sold it and bought the same boat as a sloop and loved the lack of clutter a mizzen creates. The mast was the same height which left it underpowered in light winds. We added a 150% genoa to make up for it.