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28-11-2016, 16:05
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 283
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To drill or not to drill...
I'm in the process of replacing the handrails on the outside of my boat. I had some issues with the old ones leaking water into the cabin.
So naturally when I removed the old rails, I discovered wet wood in most of the old screw holes. Some more wet than others. I've drilled out and countersunk the old holes and plan on filling them with epoxy once the core has dried out. I used a 5/8 inch bit to enlarge the old holes.
There are three holes, spaced approximately 1.5 inches apart where the old rail attached to the cabin top. I used an Allen wrench in my drill to clean out as much of the old wet core as I could. However the Allen wrench only extends about a 1/2 inch beyond the holes I've drilled.
My question is this. Should I drill some more smaller holes around the area to help the core dry out or do you think that the current holes are sufficient? I really don't know how far the wet core extends. I would rather not put more holes in the boat than I need to.
I could use my Drexel tool to remove a top layer of glass I suppose then epoxy it back on. I also plan on covering the holes with plastic wrap and tape the edges down then let it sit for a month or so to dry.
Thoughts?
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28-11-2016, 17:12
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Satellite Beach, Fl
Boat: Maxim, Voyage 380
Posts: 42
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
You're not going to like a lot of the answers you will get.
The only way to see how big of a problem you have is to buy a moisture meter like a surveyor uses (about $200). This will let you know how wet the wood is and where the wet wood is. If you seal up wet, damp wood, it will rot.
Wet wood core is very hard to dry and takes a long time. A dehumidifier is really the only way and still takes weeks. (I've done this by drilling 1/2" hole every 2", seal of the area so the humidifier can do its thing) Filled all the hole with an epoxy paste.
If it is a small area, you can drill holes, use acetone in the holes and use a wet vac to suck out the water. (Before all the armchair quarterbacks chime in, it's not going to blow up. People who do these repairs have been doing it for a long time). This only help to dry it out, you will still need air and a lot of surface ares to get it dry. Once dry, the product called "Wood Rot" does work but I think Epoxy would also work.
BUT, if you're taking an allen wrench and able to get wood out, it's probable been wet a long time and will need to be cut out.
Regardless what you do, best installation is to install the hand rail, take the handrail back off. Drill out all the screw hole like with a 5/8" bit, fill with epoxy and re-drill for the screw hole. This way, water will never get to the core.
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28-11-2016, 17:38
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 283
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
Thank you. I have a dehumidifier on the boat and I'm not in a hurry so there is that.
I really don't want to spend $200 on a meter or purchase a wet vac so I think that my best bet seems to be to cut away the topside a little at a time to revel the extent of the dampness then go from there. I already plan on epoxing the screws holes and re-drilling them to the proper size.
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28-11-2016, 17:40
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: Mahe 36, Helia 44 Evo, MY 37
Posts: 5,731
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
You can get deeper in the holes by using a bent 16 penny nail (3.5 inchs long).
Just use a bunch of 16 penny nails with different bends until you get to good balsa wood.
Fill all voids with epoxy.
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29-11-2016, 08:11
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond YC, SF Bay
Boat: 1974 Cal Cruising 35
Posts: 105
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
A friend drilled hundreds of 3/16" or 1/4" holes in the cabin overhead then ran big fan for days to dry out wet plywood. After it dried he used penetrating epoxy http://www.smithandcompany.org/CPES/.
I used the same on smaller problem areas. After the penetrating epoxy is cured the holes were then filled with West System Epoxy: Epoxy by the Leading Epoxy Manufacturer | WEST SYSTEM Epoxy with filler added. It was a big job but it worked. Later oversized mounting holes drilled and filled with epoxy to isolate core.
Cheers
Mike
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29-11-2016, 16:03
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 87
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
I've done this on this vintage C&C 30, 27 & 25. If you find moisture is extensive you can makeup 1/4" thick teak plate for interior about 3" wide and about 2" longer than the interior rail. This will address the cosmetics of the surgery necessary to get at the underside of the deck laminate. Dry fit the plate, mark the teak plate outline on the headliner, drill holes (using the bolt holes as guides)in headliner no more than 2" diameter for each bolt holt, small if possible. This will allow you to drill INTO THE CORE ONLY. Once done you will be able to remove all the bad plywood (shouldn't be balsa). Tape over the holes from the outside. Tape around large inside holes. Mix up small batch of epoxy thickened with chopped fiber and/or cabosil. Trowel in with putty knife flush with headliner. Drill new holes when fully cured. Use the new teak plate between headliner and inside hand rail. It should fit the headliner curve. Voila - Much better than the factory did it.
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29-11-2016, 16:31
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
Quote:
Originally Posted by notiesbob
I've done this on this vintage C&C 30, 27 & 25. If you find moisture is extensive you can makeup 1/4" thick teak plate for interior about 3" wide and about 2" longer than the interior rail. This will address the cosmetics of the surgery necessary to get at the underside of the deck laminate. Dry fit the plate, mark the teak plate outline on the headliner, drill holes (using the bolt holes as guides)in headliner no more than 2" diameter for each bolt holt, small if possible. This will allow you to drill INTO THE CORE ONLY. Once done you will be able to remove all the bad plywood (shouldn't be balsa). Tape over the holes from the outside. Tape around large inside holes. Mix up small batch of epoxy thickened with chopped fiber and/or cabosil. Trowel in with putty knife flush with headliner. Drill new holes when fully cured. Use the new teak plate between headliner and inside hand rail. It should fit the headliner curve. Voila - Much better than the factory did it.
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The above info is great stuff. One slightly different technique based on it is that instead of using epoxy bog to completely fill the large holes in the deck's underside, you can bond in pieces of G10, FRP plate, Phenolic, etc. First applying epoxy or bog to them, & the holes. Followed by putting them in place, & using a bolt to hold them there while things cure. Then add your handrails, & cover plate, etc.
It makes for a little less upside down glassing.
One other option, assuming your deck isn't stupid thick. Is to simply seal the bottoms of the large holes, & fill them with resin/bog from above. Which generally is done with less viscous resin, & bog then when working from below. Just be sure that you're not adding so much resin that it goes exothermic on you due to it's pool size, or pour depth. And you can use a slower curing resin to assist with in avoiding such a faux pax.
Note: Wear a Shower Cap!!! When glassing overhead. And have some baby oil handy in case you wind up with some cured resin on any exposed hair. It's not a failsafe remover for the stuff, but once, many years ago, it saved me from an ugly fate.
__________________
The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
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29-11-2016, 16:40
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 87
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED
\Wear a Shower Cap!!! When glassing overhead. And have some baby oil handy in case you wind up with some cured resin on any exposed hair. It's not a failsafe remover for the stuff, but once, many years ago, it saved me from an ugly fate.
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I just shaved what was left off. Low maintenance, less drag.
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29-11-2016, 16:58
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: New City, New York
Boat: Oday 25
Posts: 165
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
I ran across this problem when putting a new outboard bracket on the stern of my Oday 25. It was obvious that there was rot in the transom core. I didn't want to cut off the interior side of the transom which would have meant working in a cramped tiny space, but it was apparent that some of the plywood core was rotten where the old bracket attached. I ended up drilling many 3/8" holes, from the inside which did not penetrate the exterior surface. The holes did however go through the rotten core. After a winter of drying, I dipped short pieces of 3/8" hardwood dowel into thickend West system epoxy and inserted them from the inside untill they touched the exterior fiberglass. The excess dowel was cut off flush to the inside after curing. The end result was that the dowels replace the function of the core, acting as a spacer and as a replacement of the core without any exterior damage. If you're careful with the spacing and grain orientation you can do the same to your overhead from the interior. It'll look like it was part of the design.
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29-11-2016, 17:31
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 283
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
Thanks for all the tips and advice!
Today I drilled one more hole in the dampest part of the cabin top (where the old rail was mounted) to see if I could find "good" plywood. I did find what I believe to be the extent of the rot.
I've covered up all of the holes with clear plastic sheeting, securely taped on the top and sides with gaffer tape (best tape ever!) leaving some drainage on the bottom. These holes are all on the side of the cabin so any water evaporation will flow down. I have a heater and a dehumidifier running inside the boat so hopefully things will dry out in a few weeks.
I'll then tape off the bottom of the holes (on the underside of the cabin liner) and pour some epoxy in from the top. Once it has cured I can sand smooth, brush on a fresh coat of gelcoat and then paint. I'll re-drill my mounting holes for the hand rails.
Sound like a good plan?
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29-11-2016, 18:18
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: President 43 Sportfish
Posts: 4,105
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcolman
...Sound like a good plan?
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You'll never dry them out that way.
Remove and replace the wet and rotted wood.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
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29-11-2016, 18:31
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#12
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,060
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova
You'll never dry them out that way.
Remove and replace the wet and rotted wood.
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+1 .....
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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29-11-2016, 19:37
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 283
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova
You'll never dry them out that way.
Remove and replace the wet and rotted wood.
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I *think* that I've gotten most of the rotted wood out by using a bent nail in my drill. There is always the chance that some still remains but by poking around with a probe I've hit what seems to be dry wood around the edges of my drill holes. I guess that the only real way to know is to remove a section of the topsides. Oh well... looks like more needs to be done.
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30-11-2016, 05:22
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#14
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,060
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcolman
I *think* that I've gotten most of the rotted wood out by using a bent nail in my drill. There is always the chance that some still remains but by poking around with a probe I've hit what seems to be dry wood around the edges of my drill holes. I guess that the only real way to know is to remove a section of the topsides. Oh well... looks like more needs to be done.
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FYI "topsides" are the sides of the hull between the waterline and the sheer (toe rail).
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
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30-11-2016, 05:52
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
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Re: To drill or not to drill...
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker
FYI "topsides" are the sides of the hull between the waterline and the sheer (toe rail).
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LOL, that always crossed me up as a kid! Kind of like Midnight being 12:00am. Which is why I switched to 24hr time at 13
__________________
The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
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