Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-06-2019, 06:40   #1
Registered User

Join Date: May 2019
Location: Slidell, LA
Boat: ‘69 Mariner 31
Posts: 8
To core or not to core?

Morning all!

My (new to me) 1969 Mariner 31 had a significant, uncorrected leak on the starboard salon wall that I initially thought was due to a failed silicone bedded portlight job some number of years ago. After removing quite a bit of soaked plywood, I began to realize that while the window was leaking, the damage extended well beyond just that port light. I eventually discovered the nucleus of my problem is an accent trim piece that runs along the exterior of the cabin, about 1” square. It appears over the last 50 years, the fiberglass at the top edge of this trim piece has deteriorated to the point where it’s more paint joining the top to the bottom than fiberglass.

While I’m very glad to have discovered this problem, it has presented me with a dilemma. I can fairly easily replace about a 6’ by 3’ piece of 1” plywood and glass both sides but given newer designs don’t use core it has occurred to me that it may be easier/better for longevity purposes to layup several layers of 1708 with epoxy resin and just use wood as decoration on the inside without any structural properties in the wood. This idea is spawned from the fact that the original plywood core was only glassed on the exterior. Interior face was painted and that appears to be the case around the entire salon top. The original fiberglass skin is no more than 2-3 layers and given the extreme rot is the only thing that’s been holding the roof for many years, so any glass properly tabbed is going to be a significant improvement from its state over the last however many years.

So my question, has anyone else ever chosen to forgo a core and use epoxy laminate with 1708 as a replacement in similar scenarios? Advantages/disadvantages? How many plys should I layup if going this route?
SwampSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 06:49   #2
Registered User
 
Chotu's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: 50ft Custom Fast Catamaran
Posts: 11,832
Re: To core or not to core?

The disadvantage is you might go exothermic creating a laminate this thick with epoxy. Epoxy creates its own heat. Heat makes epoxy cure faster. It can be a runaway chain reaction with too thick of a laminate done at once.

If you want to keep the thing resistant to rot, Not using any wood at all, Use a type of plastic as a core. Coosa board. Stuff like that.
Chotu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 13:30   #3
Moderator Emeritus
 
roverhi's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
Posts: 7,505
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: To core or not to core?

Most cabin sides on fiberglass boats are not cored nor rely on interior plywood for strength. Usually the plywood on the cabin sides is 1/4" and strictly decorative. Strange that they used 1" plywood unless the cabin side lay up is VERY thin and the plywood glued to the interior was needed for strength. The cabin sides on boats in the mid 30' range that I've owned are 1/4" or so and plenty strong enough for what they have to do. If the cabin sides are that thickness or larger wouldn't worry about adding additional glass. Laying up a couple layers of epoxy and stitch matt cloth shouldn't cause any exothermal problems if you decide to increase the glass thickness.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 14:02   #4
Registered User
 
dwedeking2's Avatar

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Key West, FL
Boat: Morgan Out Island 415
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Re: To core or not to core?

I used a synthetic core then glassed inside and out. If I was building a boat it would be cost prohibitive, but it was a small area. I'll never have to worry about this 2 sq ft area and it's faster cheaper than multiple layers of glass.
__________________
S/V Pomaika'i Blog
dwedeking2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 14:13   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Southern MD, Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catalina & Maycraft
Posts: 996
Re: To core or not to core?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwedeking2 View Post
I used a synthetic core then glassed inside and out. If I was building a boat it would be cost prohibitive, but it was a small area. I'll never have to worry about this 2 sq ft area and it's faster cheaper than multiple layers of glass.

Do you recall what kind of core you used? Was it Coosa? I expect I'll need to know in the future-
Hardhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 14:23   #6
Registered User
 
dwedeking2's Avatar

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Key West, FL
Boat: Morgan Out Island 415
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Re: To core or not to core?

It was from Defender. Gurit Corecell. It's probably overkill for this application but I had a section left over from rebuilding the deck under the windlass.

http://svpomaikai.com/galley-portlight-removal/
__________________
S/V Pomaika'i Blog
dwedeking2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 14:45   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Southern MD, Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catalina & Maycraft
Posts: 996
Re: To core or not to core?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwedeking2 View Post
It was from Defender. Gurit Corecell. It's probably overkill for this application but I had a section left over from rebuilding the deck under the windlass.

Galley Portlight Removal | The Sailing Vessel Pomaika'i

Thanks - great website. Repair looks solid.
Hardhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 14:51   #8
Registered User
 
Chotu's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2018
Boat: 50ft Custom Fast Catamaran
Posts: 11,832
Re: To core or not to core?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwedeking2 View Post
It was from Defender. Gurit Corecell. It's probably overkill for this application but I had a section left over from rebuilding the deck under the windlass.

Galley Portlight Removal | The Sailing Vessel Pomaika'i
Corecell under the windlass?? What density?

Disclaimer: My entire boat is made of corecell.
Chotu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 16:32   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: BUILT!!! Roberts Mauritius 43ft
Posts: 3,655
Re: To core or not to core?

Just a little detail which you probably know already.


https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/mariner-31


Mariner Yachts - Home of the Mariner Owners Association


For Sale: 1969 Mariner 31 Ketch, Freshly Restored ! - Cruisers ...


www.cruisersforum.com › ... › Vendor Spotlight - Great Deals for CF Members!
Nov 18, 2011 - 15 posts - ‎5 authors
We are proud to offer Kahagon , a 1969 Far East Yachts Mariner 31 ketch for sale . Kahagon is currently undergoing a refit and partial ...Free: Mariner 40 1966 wooden ketch 15 posts 26 Dec 2011

Uh Oh . . . Mariner Issue . . .15 posts2 Dec 2011

For Sale: Mariner 31' Ketch 1 post 3 Sep 2011

Mariner 31' 7 posts 1 May 2009


coopec43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 17:06   #10
Registered User

Join Date: May 2019
Location: Slidell, LA
Boat: ‘69 Mariner 31
Posts: 8
Re: To core or not to core?

Yes, I know of the owners forum and did a lot of research before buying her so knew the possibility of a rotten cabin. I’m not terribly upset about that part, she’ll be beautiful when I’m done but wonder if a little modern tech on the inside with the classic look on the outside won’t give the old girl another 50 years.

As far as exothermic concerns, you’re probably right, but if I spaced the laminations out over time would this help? I have 10 years before I retire and take her over the horizon so I’m not looking for a fast job, but would like a good one. I probably should have had this brainstorm on Saturday, I laid up a layer with epoxy on the inside to reinforce the skin on Sunday (with plans of adding bedded plywood after it set) so cant really switch to a polyester plan now... I’m thinking 2 more layers of 1708 on the exterior and then finished with a top sheet of 4.25 oz is just what the doctor ordered.
SwampSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 19:20   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: BUILT!!! Roberts Mauritius 43ft
Posts: 3,655
Re: To core or not to core?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampSailor View Post

As far as exothermic concerns, you’re probably right, but if I spaced the laminations out over time would this help? I have 10 years before I retire and take her over the horizon so I’m not looking for a fast job, but would like a good one. I probably should have had this brainstorm on Saturday, I laid up a layer with epoxy on the inside to reinforce the skin on Sunday (with plans of adding bedded plywood after it set) so cant really switch to a polyester plan now... I’m thinking 2 more layers of 1708 on the exterior and then finished with a top sheet of 4.25 oz is just what the doctor ordered.

I would never lay up more than a few layers at a time. If I'm glassing over a cranny where air can't circulate I am particularly careful but have a bucket of water ready "just in case". Typically if you glass now the heat would build up over the next half hour but then gradually subside.(But the ambient temperature has a big effect on the curing proces)
coopec43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 19:44   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Boat: Sceptre 36
Posts: 454
Re: To core or not to core?

You did say 1" plywood, right? To me that implies a structural member, probably a mast support bulkhead. Be very cautious in modifications, it may be a very significant structural member!
Rex Delay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 19:50   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: BUILT!!! Roberts Mauritius 43ft
Posts: 3,655
Re: To core or not to core?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Delay View Post
You did say 1" plywood, right? To me that implies a structural member, probably a mast support bulkhead. Be very cautious in modifications, it may be a very significant structural member!

You are probably right as I am sure I read somewhere they were a timber yacht with a f/g skin....
coopec43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 20:46   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Southern MD, Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catalina & Maycraft
Posts: 996
Re: To core or not to core?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
I would never lay up more than a few layers at a time. If I'm glassing over a cranny where air can't circulate I am particularly careful but have a bucket of water ready "just in case". Typically if you glass now the heat would build up over the next half hour but then gradually subside.(But the ambient temperature has a big effect on the curing proces)

Just out of curiosity - what would you need the water for - to dump on it? I've occasionally had a batch of epoxy hit a critical mass, and get pretty dang hot in a plastic cup, but is it expected it can actually catch fire? Honest question-
Hardhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 20:58   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: BUILT!!! Roberts Mauritius 43ft
Posts: 3,655
Re: To core or not to core?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardhead View Post
Just out of curiosity - what would you need the water for - to dump on it? I've occasionally had a batch of epoxy hit a critical mass, and get pretty dang hot in a plastic cup, but is it expected it can actually catch fire? Honest question-

Lots and lots of fiberglass factories have gone up in smoke!


I wouldn't dump the water on it. I have a rag as well as the bucket of water so I wet the rag in the bucket of water and lay the rag on the glassing to cool it down well before it bursts into flames. I would not do any glassing just before I knocked off for the day as I like to be there as it is curing. (maybe I am a bit too careful)


Oct 17, 2015 - A Melbourne suburb has been blanketed in toxic black smoke by a fibreglass factory blaze. The fire, which erupted on Saturday afternoon, is now under control but residents in Heidelberg West are being adv....

Oct 16, 2015 - Fibreglass factory fire in Heidelberg West. Print Email Facebook ... Black smoke billows out of a fibre glass factory ablaze in Melbourne's north.

Firefighters are dampening down hot spots after a fire at a fibreglass factory in Dunedin ...


Just do a search on "factory fire fibreglass"


https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...e190167cbef230
coopec43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
core

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
To balsa core or not to balsa core? fbchristo Multihull Sailboats 135 04-02-2009 14:13
different core types (foam pvc, divinicell vs balsa) schoonerdog Multihull Sailboats 56 22-07-2008 09:56
Bowsprit area core delamination / rot / wet SV Someday Came Construction, Maintenance & Refit 5 26-09-2007 07:27
Cape Lookout via Core Sound ??? Kokomo36 Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 2 10-10-2006 05:46

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.