The Yard Guys

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Okay, then let's try to clear this up. Do you think the greenish substance is Plexus? That's what I thought you were saying earlier.

Then, if that yellow stuff was glue from a headliner, and not the same adhesive that pulled away from the hull - then the question is: Was the Plexus bonding correctly done in the first place (e.g. - was enough applied, was the fillet sufficient, etc.)?

Again, back to the various issues being discussed here...if the green stuff is indeed Plexus and the yellow stuff is a different adhesive for the headliner, you have to be impressed that the Plexus stuck to that varnished wood with a tiny fillet. On the other hand, you have to be concerned that it instead pulled away to the top coat of the FG hull.

It goes back to what was being talked about in the thesis. Because Plexus transfers the load to the substrates, more so than traditional tabbing, the strength of the substrates is critical. The fact that the FG failed in this case (not the plywood) definitely says something about the FG.

you need to get over this thing, the greenish stuff is methacrylate adhesive, Plexus is just a Brand.

I cant answer if is correctly done or not at the Factory, sure shooting the adhesive on top of varnish is wrong, varnish dont have the strenght to hold the ply and the fillet , its very common practique in this boats filleting the stuff on top of varnish.

Its not enough applied and is not enough wide ,and is not nice done, and is not the proper job for a structural bulkhead....if it fail at Fg side is something i dont know, flexing, bad bonding, bad job, who know?

Im not surprised to see a fillet of glue Plexus unbonded, or cracks, but to see it by yourself you need to dive in the most darksome spots in the boat, sometimes just open a cabinet door its enough, Lagoon`s have some isues in the past with bulkheads problems and i think this days are back to fg tabbing, something to consider,

[Exile]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Same thing can be said for assumptions.

Like the one that says if you buy cheap you get cheap, perhaps?

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by colemj

Was this a bulkhead/deck bond? I didn't catch that. Where on the boat? Then yes, maybe the yellow on the wood is glue from a headliner.

Is there a recess of some type the whole thing is sitting in? What is that?

Mark

Its the main bulkhead in a beneteau 50, the spot in question is under the cabinets doors in the kitchen , the recess could be a slot in the mold kind of a guide to position the bulkhead after the mold as cured and the interior assembly begun.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Exile

...The relevant question for boat buyers is whether... the less expensive construction methods & materials result in making them less seaworthy...

The answer is "yes", once it becomes necessary for "yard guys" to repair it.

This thread should be renamed "Endless Plexus Dialog".

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

The answer is "yes", once it becomes necessary for "yard guys" to repair it.

This thread should be renamed "Endless Plexus Dialog".

Endless plexus dialog . Thats it, you hit the nail.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Endless plexus dialog . Thats it, you hit the nail.

Apparently with Plexus, no nails, screws, reinforced laminate, or anything else is needed!

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Exile

Like the one that says if you buy cheap you get cheap, perhaps?

Sure.

But you shouldn't immediately jump from "cheap" to "dangerous". Less expensive is not inherently inferior - it all depends on the intended purpose. And, for sure, more expensive is by no means always "better".

I've already shown this, but here is the expensive handiwork of the yard's electrician guy after getting my standing rigging re-done. I helped him pull new wire through the mast for all my fixtures - and this is how he finished the job at $80/hr:

[neilpride]

I bet you a cold 6pack that this mess in your bilge is prior to the electrician job.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by neilpride

I bet you a cold 6pack that this mess in your bilge is prior to the electrician job.

No, all of that is post standing rigging work. That's all the new cable we pulled. The bilge looked fine before that.

[neilpride]

You try to say that all this wires come from the mast?

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by neilpride

You try to say that all this wires come from the mast?

No silly. Just the stuff that makes up the mess.

[neilpride]

All is a mess, sorry, i guess you have Vhf, tricolor, spreaders lights, steaming light? radar. 5 big wires ? in your picture there is probably more than 8 or 9 wires around. So my guess is the guy in question found the mess anyway before and follow the trend,he he, im not trying to defend a bad job, is a crappy job, but oh well smack, your fault to, never pay a job if you are not satisfied...

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by neilpride

All is a mess, sorry, i guess you have Vhf, tricolor, spreaders lights, steaming light? radar. 5 big wires ? in your picture there is probably more than 8 or 9 wires around. So my guess is the guy in question found the mess anyway before and follow the trend,he he, im not trying to defend a bad job, is a crappy job, but oh well smack, your fault to, never pay a job if you are not satisfied...

Not according to the survey or the pics my surveyor took prior to my buying the boat. But you're welcome to try to put it on the customer if you want.

[unbusted67]

All these pics of unbonded liners is giving me an anxiety attack. As much as they give a hull rigidity they also make for uninspectable locations in the bow of the boat which is where most impacts happen. If and when I buy a new boat i will be trying hard to find one without a liner.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Sure.

But you shouldn't immediately jump from "cheap" to "dangerous". Less expensive is not inherently inferior - it all depends on the intended purpose.

You keep saying "intended purpose," but aren't we talking about offshore ocean sailing with friends & loved ones potentially onboard? I've sailed up & down the eastern seaboard a respectable no. of times, and it's been pretty rough at times. Do you know how many such "cycles" your used, 25 year-old Hunter went through before you bought it?

Having said this, I don't have any hard evidence, nor any credentials for that matter, to authoritatively attribute inferiority to the cheaper, mass-produced boats. But it doesn't sound like you do either with your claims to the contrary. Perhaps it's my lack of technical background which compels my relying more heavily on the technicians and surveyors I've talked to who have worked on or inspected many of these boats. Rightly ot wrongly, this is supported by the anecdotal evidence that I see from the likes of NeilPride & the Bene he's currently working on, Blue Pearl & CR, and two big Benes I've personally seen with serious "nose jobs," i.e. a big chunk of their bows sheared off after some too-close quarters "racing" out in the bay.

Plenty of anecdotal evidence going the other way I know, but then there's the rep of the mass-produced mfgs. designing & bldg. predominantly to a price point. To the point of compromising structural integrity & therefore safety? Aren't the hull and supporting structures the costliest components for a mfg. to produce? The debate rages on . . . .