Testing Pawl Oil For Winches

[Pauls]

Hi Thinwater. I've been involved in designing and building high precision machinery for decades. At one time we built close to 200 very close tolerance systems which would go out into the field for a year or two and then be returned for rework. I noticed very early on that many conventional lubricants dried out - meaning that the lubricating oil evaporated - quite rapidly. So I began an experimental series, using different lubricants and gauging them by their condition when returned. Because our systems were mostly used in clean rooms I also had some lubricants tested for vapor pressure. The simple take away was that synthetic lubricants - both oils and greases (greases are just oils thickened by adding a thickening agent) were far superior. They showed notably lower vapor pressures than conventional oils and as vapor pressure is a direct measurement of evaporation rate of course they lasted longer.

My suggestion to you is to take a sheet of metal, establish a way to wipe oil samples onto it that is as uniform as possible, and wipe a variety of different oil samples onto the sheet. Label them, put them into an environment you feel is appropriate, and observe what happens. I think you will find the results very interesting. In my opinion the oil which stays longest on the surface will be the best oil for this job.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by savoir

Try post #15

Hmm... to my simple mind, that product appears to be for drive chains and similar and not at all for a chainsaw chain and bar lube but perhaps I'm out of touch with the modern practices...

Anyway as it is not directly related to this fine thread, I'm happy to accept that you might use it for a chainsaw - I'll stick to the old stuff.

[Wotname]

@Thinwater, thanks for planning to do this testing. I can appreciate the amount of work involved (and also realise the rewards will not be monetary ).

It will be good to see the results, especially as it will independent of pecuniary interests.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Pauls

Hi Thinwater. I've been involved in designing and building high precision machinery for decades. At one time we built close to 200 very close tolerance systems which would go out into the field for a year or two and then be returned for rework. I noticed very early on that many conventional lubricants dried out - meaning that the lubricating oil evaporated - quite rapidly. So I began an experimental series, using different lubricants and gauging them by their condition when returned. Because our systems were mostly used in clean rooms I also had some lubricants tested for vapor pressure. The simple take away was that synthetic lubricants - both oils and greases (greases are just oils thickened by adding a thickening agent) were far superior. They showed notably lower vapor pressures than conventional oils and as vapor pressure is a direct measurement of evaporation rate of course they lasted longer.

My suggestion to you is to take a sheet of metal, establish a way to wipe oil samples onto it that is as uniform as possible, and wipe a variety of different oil samples onto the sheet. Label them, put them into an environment you feel is appropriate, and observe what happens. I think you will find the results very interesting. In my opinion the oil which stays longest on the surface will be the best oil for this job.

Yes to all of that. Specifically, the low volatility requirement is key.

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Hmm... to my simple mind, that product appears to be for drive chains and similar and not at all for a chainsaw chain and bar lube but perhaps I'm out of touch with the modern practices...

Anyway as it is not directly related to this fine thread, I'm happy to accept that you might use it for a chainsaw - I'll stick to the old stuff.

I have never owned or used or lubricated a chainsaw in my life. I use the stuff for my boat bicycle chain and it works very well too. If you want an oil that will last longer on winch pawls than machine oil then this is the stuff for you.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by thinwater

[*]I would like to come up with a test for function, perhaps based on opening up an old winch so that the function of the pawls is visible. Cutting a new winch in half would be... troubling. This test could be run on both new and artificially aged lubricants.

Could you rig up some gudgeon and pintle assembly with a light spring where you could measure the force required to deflect an arm? Would allow you to test lubricity in a largely analogous application.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by savoir

I have never owned or used or lubricated a chainsaw in my life. I use the stuff for my boat bicycle chain and it works very well too. If you want an oil that will last longer on winch pawls than machine oil then this is the stuff for you.

Although chain saw oil needs some cling to avoid slinging off at 8,000 rpm, it also needs to dissolve rosin. Thus, you have to keep flushing a certain amount through. So nothing will be permanent.

[Compass790]

I found synthetic lubricants lasted way longer on my rifle whilst hunting in wet conditions but cant remember the names. Had trouble with winch pawls sticking after 2 years using synthetic grease. Just done them with synthetic engine oil as a trial but only been done maybe 1 month

[Pauls]

I recommend Birchwood Casey Synthetic Gun Oil. Very low vapor pressure, (I certified it for clean room use), very good corrosion resistance. This is a light oil well suited for use on pawls.

[thinwater]

One factor may be that just as oils come in many weights, so dies grease, only it's not labeled that way. The grease products I have found that are used for pawls (winches and bicycles) are very much on the thin side.

For example, Anderson recommends grease, but it is a much lighter grease (I have samples of all of the marine winch greases).

I've used syn grease on pawls for 20 years without trouble (and I sail in the winter too!), and yet some have trouble. Obviously something is different, since both experiences are true. I will say that I use very little grease, much less than on gears and bearings. Just what you can wipe on and back off.

[sy_gilana]

I use K-Y gel. Has worked really well so far...


...Oh you said winch, thought you said wench.

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by Pauls

I recommend Birchwood Casey Synthetic Gun Oil. Very low vapor pressure, (I certified it for clean room use), very good corrosion resistance. This is a light oil well suited for use on pawls.

Yea that was the stuff I couldnt remember.Thanks for jogging the memory